Question from Yuan Zhuo's "understanding pro games"

For lessons, as well as threads about specific moves, and anything else worth studying.
hyperpape
Tengen
Posts: 4382
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 3:24 pm
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
Has thanked: 499 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: Question from Yuan Zhuo's "understanding pro games"

Post by hyperpape »

Kirby wrote:Play 7 below 1.
*sigh* Of course.
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: Question from Yuan Zhuo's "understanding pro games"

Post by Bill Spight »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Maybe?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . 6 4 3 B O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 B O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . O O X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: Question from Yuan Zhuo's "understanding pro games"

Post by Kirby »

Bill Spight wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Maybe?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . 6 4 3 B O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 B O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . O O X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Probably better, yeah.
be immersed
gamesorry
Lives with ko
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:03 pm
Rank: 3d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: 3d
DGS: 3d
OGS: 3d
Has thanked: 276 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: Question from Yuan Zhuo's "understanding pro games"

Post by gamesorry »

Kirby wrote:Given the capture of the three stones, this doesn't seem bad to me for black. Would white really play this way?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O O X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
I guess white has sente.
Yes, while I think both sides are playable if white has sente, I agree that this shouldn't be the variation the author had in mind.
Calvin Clark
Lives in gote
Posts: 426
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:43 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 191 times

Re: Question from Yuan Zhuo's "understanding pro games"

Post by Calvin Clark »

The particular push and cut seems rare. I only found one example from GoGoD, this game between Kitani (W) and Takagawa (B), but the whole board position is different and :wc: is at the 3-4 point. (Also, :bc: is closer than in the original diagram.) Actually Yuan Zhou has written commentaries on games of these players, and I would not be surprised if he was familiar with this particular game, though I can't see if that's what he had in mind.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 21 to 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . 9 7 3 1 . X O X X O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 . 8 6 2 O O X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Anyway, at least in this game, the crawl seems less bad because of the threat to connect to :wc: and remembering that :w4: above is sente.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 31 to 34
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . 1 3 . . , . . X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 . 2 X X X X . X O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O O O O X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: Question from Yuan Zhuo's "understanding pro games"

Post by Kirby »

Good example, Calvin.

I seem to be stuck with the idea in my mind that "crawling on the second line is bad". Since W played this way in your example, I'm inclined to think that my perception is wrong, but I don't know why. Maybe black's compensation for white's second line territory isn't as good as I'm thinking...
be immersed
Post Reply