The Story of a Loser - The Great Pitfall of Studying Go!

[Bill Spight]

Game 2

Hane at the head of two stones. (P-14)

Small. Who cares about one stone? This is an unfamiliar position. Maybe surround the corner with O-16. Maybe attach at Q-16.

Keep up the pressure with Q-17.

Better to peep at P17.

Just extend one more at L-17.

Atari at O-18, killing the corner.

Kill he corner. (Q-19).

[Ian Butler]

Thank you, Bill, for your wonderful advice once again.
You're right, I could've killed the corner in game 2 with 48 at 0-18, I didn't need to defend first.
However, I don't quite see how Q19 kills the corner with white 50? Can't black make two eyes by playing P19?

[dfan]

However, I don't quite see how Q19 kills the corner with white 50? Can't black make two eyes by playing P19?

After W Q19 B P19, White has one response to kill. I will not spoil it for you since you are capable of figuring it out yourself.

[Ian Butler]

However, I don't quite see how Q19 kills the corner with white 50? Can't black make two eyes by playing P19?

After W Q19 B P19, White has one response to kill. I will not spoil it for you since you are capable of figuring it out yourself.

R19! (Twice, throw in)

[Ian Butler]

Two situations came up in a short game earlier today where I think I overplayed. I got away with it, twice, but after the game I tried some variants and I think both were a mistake.
What do you think?

They are moves and
Too aggressive?

[Ian Butler]

Jesus. I just had the worst go experience in my career. Playing against someone this style.
Worst of it all is, that it worked against me. Just a dreadful game. I feel really bad about this (not about losing, but about how it was played.)

Bah.



EDIT: reviewed. Not too detailed, I can't right now.

[Knotwilg]

Self review. I'll be back this evening.

[Bill Spight]

What about how it was played do you feel bad about?

[Ian Butler]

What about how it was played do you feel bad about?

Just that style. He keeps crawling with terrible moves and somehow I end up getting the short end of it. I react to it all wrong and the board turns into a blob of stones. I just ache by seeing the board like that.
If my opponent makes a bad move, I should be able to punish it. Instead I retreat with an even worse move and allow my opponent to waltz over me.

Bah.

I'm done playing go for today. This type of game completely throws me off. I can't explain it. It messes with my head (I lost two other games after that because I'm just totally out of the zone).
I should think about how to avoid that in the future. Both on the board (react better) and mentally (not get so "freaked out")

EDIT: after "cooling down", it's a bit better. Still, I must find a way to handle these type of situations. I think it's just in general that I always seem to end up on the losing side when the stones come into close contact. I really need to work on that and improve. I sometimes feel like I miss something very basic, but perhaps it's just my weakness and I really should improve on it. Because it is rather important

[Knotwilg]

What about how it was played do you feel bad about?

Just that style. He keeps crawling with terrible moves and somehow I end up getting the short end of it. I react to it all wrong and the board turns into a blob of stones. I just ache by seeing the board like that.
If my opponent makes a bad move, I should be able to punish it. Instead I retreat with an even worse move and allow my opponent to waltz over me.

Bah.

I'm done playing go for today. This type of game completely throws me off. I can't explain it. It messes with my head (I lost two other games after that because I'm just totally out of the zone).
I should think about how to avoid that in the future. Both on the board (react better) and mentally (not get so "freaked out")

EDIT: after "cooling down", it's a bit better. Still, I must find a way to handle these type of situations. I think it's just in general that I always seem to end up on the losing side when the stones come into close contact. I really need to work on that and improve. I sometimes feel like I miss something very basic, but perhaps it's just my weakness and I really should improve on it. Because it is rather important

I think it will be really beneficial to review this game for yourself. If Bill or me, or other reviewers, start pointing out where you could have done better, it may only add insult to injury.

So, when you're cooled down, review your own game and publish the review here. We will surely confirm many of your own corrections and probably also improve on other. This will bring you back to your "real" level.

More importantly, your frustration is due to the difference between your level of understanding and your level of play here (measured by the level of play of the opponent). Please think about it: how does it come that bad play by the opponent leads to bad play by yourself. And what can you do about it? Tell us something about the game conditions: when was it played? how fast? did you drink alcohol? were you tired? things like that ...

[Uberdude]

If you can turn of the marker of your opponent's previous move I think you will play a lot better.

[Bill Spight]

I think it will be really beneficial to review this game for yourself. If Bill or me, or other reviewers, start pointing out where you could have done better, it may only add insult to injury.

I'll defer to you Knotwilg. Your reviews are always interesting. And I am quite busy these days. Still, I reserve the right to throw a jab or two.

More importantly, your frustration is due to the difference between your level of understanding and your level of play here (measured by the level of play of the opponent).

Good point. I have a bit to say along those lines, too.

Please think about it: how does it come that bad play by the opponent leads to bad play by yourself. And what can you do about it? Tell us something about the game conditions: when was it played? how fast? did you drink alcohol? were you tired? things like that ...

From what I hear, one time when Cho Chikun visited the San Francisco go club, he played some simultaneous games in the afternoon. Then they took him to dinner at a local Korean restaurant, where he got soused. All that did was to release his inhibitions, and he crushed all comers in the evening. Maybe Ian could have used some alcohol.

[Ian Butler]

Okay I'll try to review it. Either later today or tomorrow.
I think you brought up some very to-the-bone comments, knotwilg. For which I'm thankful.

More importantly, your frustration is due to the difference between your level of understanding and your level of play here (measured by the level of play of the opponent).

I think this might've been at play subconsciously. I've been studying hard and I love go theory. My theoretical knowledge probably outweighs my playing strength by quite some margin. During games I never seem to put in practice all what I know in theory. I think you're spot on with this observation.

Please think about it: how does it come that bad play by the opponent leads to bad play by yourself. And what can you do about it? Tell us something about the game conditions: when was it played? how fast? did you drink alcohol? were you tired? things like that ...

That is indeed the question, what can I do against it? I think part of the problem is the above: I know correct answers to correct moves, but when my opponent throws me weird moves, I don't have the actual skill to make it work against him (yet). My close contact fighting is pretty lousy, too.

Game conditions:
- it's on PC, which doesn't bring out my best reading.
- I think we both spend about 15-20 mins on this game. So fairly fast, yes.
- I never drink alcohol.
- I had played this particular player before and it was a game like this, too. I wanted to desperately avoid it, this time. So I wasn't feeling relaxed at all, I was a bit nervous and eager to avoid such a game.

So I think it's a combination of my mental state (halfway through the game I was already not myself, so that's not really me playing) and my actual Go skill, which is lower than my Go theory.

What can I do? I think patience is perhaps the only course. I can study hard and study for hours, but I think my brains need more time to process everything I study. It looks like Go isn't something that you can put theory into practise instantly. Maybe it's best to compare to learning a language and so far I've learned 1000 new words, but my grammar is pretty bad and I can't pronounce the words yet. So if I speak to a native I start wondering where all my studying went.
Despite what I wrote earlier (enough go for today) I actually spend some time playing Igowin (close combat training) and playing Leela. It calms me down a bit. Against Igowin I'm doing okay, going between me playing white and me playing black. Against Leela I did dreadfully today. I guess I was still a bit "thrown off my game".


Anyhow, thanks for your support, it really helps me. I shouldn't be frustrated at Go, but rather enjoy it (which I mostly do, it's just that some games are, you know...). I want to improve too fast and get frustrated when I still play moves "I shouldn't still play". Rather I should accept that improvement comes naturally and on its own time. Better to enjoy the ride because if I don't, I should stop playing Go immediately.

Ups and downs , I guess. I'm probably not alone in that

[Bill Spight]

What about how it was played do you feel bad about?

Just that style. He keeps crawling with terrible moves and somehow I end up getting the short end of it. I react to it all wrong and the board turns into a blob of stones. I just ache by seeing the board like that.
If my opponent makes a bad move, I should be able to punish it. Instead I retreat with an even worse move and allow my opponent to waltz over me.

I would not describe your play that way. You recognize as a slow play, for instance. You may not have made the best reply, but is not bad, especially at your level. You also recognized as another slow play. But then you blocked it with . Doing so turned a slow gote into a sente. was self-punishing. All you had to do was ignore it. You did not have to do anything to punish it. Just play your own game.

More about self-punishing play. invaded your moyo. Yeah, you made some mistakes in you attack, but you're not a dan player yet. was nice. After Black has made a group with 26 stones and 2 points of territory. (Your corner is weak, but let's ignore that fact. Neither of you saw that until later. ) Even though he managed to live, Black's play has been terribly inefficient. Suppose that the game lasted 260 moves and he played as inefficiently for the whole game, he would have played 130 stones and made 10 pts. of territory.

Again, you do not have to punish plodding play. It is self-punishing.

EDIT: after "cooling down", it's a bit better. Still, I must find a way to handle these type of situations. I think it's just in general that I always seem to end up on the losing side when the stones come into close contact. I really need to work on that and improve. I sometimes feel like I miss something very basic, but perhaps it's just my weakness and I really should improve on it. Because it is rather important

Excellent observation.

Your opponent makes these plodding plays, and yet is almost as good as you. How come? Because he is relatively good at fighting and tactics. At the end of the game he delivered the coup de grace to your top left corner. Very impressive for a DDK! You can learn from him.

You can also learn from Bruce Wilcox's Contact Fights. I think it's still available online. I have only heard good things about it. Here is the SL page about it: https://senseis.xmp.net/?GoDojo

For inspiration you might enjoy my pages about Spightonians. https://senseis.xmp.net/?BillSpight%2FB ... sePatterns

[Knotwilg]

I think part of the problem is the above: I know correct answers to correct moves, but when my opponent throws me weird moves, I don't have the actual skill to make it work against him (yet). My close contact fighting is pretty lousy, too.

Let me be a bit severe here: if you really know the foundation for the "correct" moves, you can punish the bad moves. Otherwise you're probably going through the motions of good play, without knowing why it is good.

Game conditions:
- it's on PC, which doesn't bring out my best reading.
- I think we both spend about 15-20 mins on this game. So fairly fast, yes.
- I never drink alcohol.
- I had played this particular player before and it was a game like this, too. I wanted to desperately avoid it, this time. So I wasn't feeling relaxed at all, I was a bit nervous and eager to avoid such a game.

Let's focus on the last part: you are sensitive to the opponent's personality. We cannot change this, this is who you are, but we can use this to your advantage, instead of your disadvantage. And we can also reduce the impact of it, by concentrating on other things.

I actually spend some time playing Igowin (close combat training) and playing Leela. It calms me down a bit. Against Igowin I'm doing okay, going between me playing white and me playing black. Against Leela I did dreadfully today. I guess I was still a bit "thrown off my game".

Like you I (and many others) somehow find it less stressful to play a bot than a human. I think this shows we have a strong ego and we do "play the opponent" instead of "playing the board". Like I said, we can use this to our advantage, when aware of it.

There are a couple of experiments we can try here:

1. Cold Turkey - after doing the review, challenge that awful player for a rematch. You will have studied his strengths and weaknesses and can prepare a strategy to beat him.
2. Awareness training - in your next game, if the opponent does something that throws you off, think of this conversation. "Aha! I'm thrown off here". Any psychological advance starts with recognizing the situation (and step 2: welcoming it). Just continue to be aware and acknowledge the emotion.
3. Denial - in your next game, pretend the opponent is a bot, who has no emotions, no trickery, no plan other than playing the best moves it calculates. This can be a fun experiment, but I don't recommend it as a gaming strategy, because it disregards your temperament, which seems to be emotionally engaged.