It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:07 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #21 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:10 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Dang Yifei 9p - Chen Yaoye 9p, B+3.5 (Komi 7.5)
20th Chinese League A, round 3, 2018-03-30


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . 6 . . . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #22 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:15 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
(In my pro games database (>2000 games for 2018) these are the only 8 games of 2018 that show up for the discussed position. Nobody connected at a in these games. For the size of empty quadrant see first post of thread.)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #23 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:43 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Quote:
John Fairbairn: Well, I've got about 40 this year alone (and many for 2017). The surrounding position obviously matters, so if we just search on the first 20 moves to eliminate much of that noise, there are still almost 20 - and top players such as Yi Se-tol and Jiang Weijie have played it, some within the last fortnight.


Care to share a game or two?

Or anybody else who points me to a game from 2018?

I would really like to explore the choice.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #24 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:54 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Jiang Weijie, 9p - Xu Jiayang, 7p, W+R (Komi 7.5)
20th Chinese League A, round 13, 2018-08-15

In this case connecting is related to the marked stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The marked stone is questionable by the way.
Probably because black has to play the ugly connecting move as follow up ;-)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #25 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:49 am 
Oza

Posts: 3647
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4626
Quote:
(In my pro games database (>2000 games for 2018) these are the only 8 games of 2018 that show up for the discussed position. Nobody connected at a in these games. For the size of empty quadrant see first post of thread.)


Ah, OK. There was nothing in your post to indicate you were insisting on an 11x11 quadrant and I used my usual 9x9. That limits the hits drastically, even on my almost 4,000 2018 games. But for the AI era you may wish to look at Cho Han-seung vs Tao Xinran 2016-07-16 and Ichiriki Ryo vs Uchida Shuhei 2018-04-26 as the spacings there are very large. Takao Shinji vs Kono Rin 2014-09-11 is pre-AI but there is an even wider gap on the side. In all three cases the quality of the players concerned would make me hesitate about saying "bad move."

Also, although I glibly talk about "AI era", as far as I can see no AI has played the crawl (as opposed to the connection) in an 11x11 quadrant (on a 10x10 quadrant, I have only one example: AQ vs Baduki, but only as late as move 65, in August). The earlies example I have of the crawl for both 10x10 and 11x11 by a human is 2018-03 as above from China (move 26 by Chen Yaoye). So is this a purely human idea, an AI-influenced human idea, or an AI idea I have missed?


This post by John Fairbairn was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #26 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:08 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Thanks! Will have a look at the games.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #27 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:02 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Cho Han-seung 9d - Tao Xinran 6d, W+Resign (Komi 6.5)
21st Samsung Cup, Integrated Preliminary, Round 2, 2016-07-16


Attachments:
chotao.jpg
chotao.jpg [ 170.88 KiB | Viewed 7080 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #28 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:50 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Ichiriki Ryo vs Uchida Shuhei 2018-04-26


Attachments:
Ichiriki.jpg
Ichiriki.jpg [ 152.16 KiB | Viewed 7074 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #29 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:55 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Takao Shinji - Kono Rin


Attachments:
takao.jpg
takao.jpg [ 164.61 KiB | Viewed 7074 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #30 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:59 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
My conclusion:

To connect at a is not joseki anymore. At most it can be called a situational move nowadays.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #31 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:22 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Joseki is always situational :-p

_________________
be immersed


This post by Kirby was liked by: Bill Spight
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This is just a bad move
Post #32 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:26 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Kirby wrote:
Joseki is always situational :-p


But situational plays are not always joseki. :cool:

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group