What rank is this tsumego?

Talk about improving your game, resources you like, games you played, etc.
Post Reply
Cyan
Dies in gote
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:12 pm
Rank: 3k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: What rank is this tsumego?

Post by Cyan »

Knotwilg wrote:
Gérard TAILLE wrote:
See previous answers. Your 4 is thé wrong hane. Then a diagonal decent nu white threatens to connect or make a 2nd eye
Even with 4 at kosumi white dies.

Image

I've submitted 8 variations of solutions in this link, hope it answers everyone's questions about how black can kill.

https://www.101weiqi.com/auditquestion/318584/
Top
User avatar
CDavis7M
Lives in sente
Posts: 716
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:18 pm
Rank: Shokyu
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
Has thanked: 109 times
Been thanked: 140 times
Contact:
Contact CDavis7M

Re: What rank is this tsumego?

Post by CDavis7M »

I've started to realize something doing tsumego, especially ones from real games.

There's the rank at which someone can solve the tsumego problem itself.

Then there's the rank at which someone would recognize the situation in game and play corrected, which is about 3 ranks higher than solving.

And then there's the rank at which someone would have played moves to setup the tsumego. Which is what? 6 ranks higher than solving? Of course, ranks are relative so this is just for illustration.

And then there's the rank at which the player reads several variations of which the tsumego and many others are options and they play moves to only incidentally setup the tsumego as a threat but of course neither they nor their opponent will ever let the game to that position.

Of course, in most games you just try something out and stumble into a position. It would be nice if the Go-Fairy could just whisper whether seki or ko count as a correct answer.
Top
Gérard TAILLE
Gosei
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:47 am
Rank: 1d
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: What rank is this tsumego?

Post by Gérard TAILLE »

CDavis7M wrote:I've started to realize something doing tsumego, especially ones from real games.

There's the rank at which someone can solve the tsumego problem itself.

Then there's the rank at which someone would recognize the situation in game and play corrected, which is about 3 ranks higher than solving.

And then there's the rank at which someone would have played moves to setup the tsumego. Which is what? 6 ranks higher than solving? Of course, ranks are relative so this is just for illustration.

And then there's the rank at which the player reads several variations of which the tsumego and many others are options and they play moves to only incidentally setup the tsumego as a threat but of course neither they nor their opponent will ever let the game to that position.

Of course, in most games you just try something out and stumble into a position. It would be nice if the Go-Fairy could just whisper whether seki or ko count as a correct answer.
I agree with you, depending of your rank, you will have a different appreciation of a move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . , . . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X X . O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . 1 . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Surely the move :b1: above is the only move to kill white stones and as such :b1: is a good move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . , . . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X X . O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . 2 X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
What about the answer :w2: ? For a strong player no doubt it is a very bad move. First of all white loses a ko threat and secondly when black answers with "a" white suffers locally a great loss. Each time white adds a move this move is probably a bad move isn't it?
Top
Elom0
Lives in sente
Posts: 732
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:03 pm
Rank: BGA 3 kyu
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Elom, Windnwater
OGS: Elom, Elom0
Online playing schedule: The OGS data looks pretty so I'll pause for now before I change it.
Has thanked: 1028 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: What rank is this tsumego?

Post by Elom0 »

Gérard TAILLE wrote:
CDavis7M wrote:I've started to realize something doing tsumego, especially ones from real games.

There's the rank at which someone can solve the tsumego problem itself.

Then there's the rank at which someone would recognize the situation in game and play corrected, which is about 3 ranks higher than solving.

And then there's the rank at which someone would have played moves to setup the tsumego. Which is what? 6 ranks higher than solving? Of course, ranks are relative so this is just for illustration.

And then there's the rank at which the player reads several variations of which the tsumego and many others are options and they play moves to only incidentally setup the tsumego as a threat but of course neither they nor their opponent will ever let the game to that position.

Of course, in most games you just try something out and stumble into a position. It would be nice if the Go-Fairy could just whisper whether seki or ko count as a correct answer.
I agree with you, depending of your rank, you will have a different appreciation of a move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . , . . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X X . O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . 1 . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Surely the move :b1: above is the only move to kill white stones and as such :b1: is a good move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . , . . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X X . O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . 2 X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
What about the answer :w2: ? For a strong player no doubt it is a very bad move. First of all white loses a ko threat and secondly when black answers with "a" white suffers locally a great loss. Each time white adds a move this move is probably a bad move isn't it?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . , . . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X X . O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Also, what happens if white plays the knights move?
Top
Gérard TAILLE
Gosei
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:47 am
Rank: 1d
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: What rank is this tsumego?

Post by Gérard TAILLE »

Elom0 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . , . . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X X . O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Also, what happens if white plays the knights move?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . , . . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X X . O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
What is your idea? If white is unconditionnaly dead then this exchange :w2: :b3: is in practice very bad for white.
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Amateurs”