So this occurred in a game I recently played. I need some help Figuring the correct response
So was the tenuki at 3 a mistake? w4 seems a little early but I didn't see how to play well against it. a and b are the points that looked most promising. I played a in game but I now feel that this is the wrong direction, play c and keep them split maybe? any comments would be appreciated.
Position from a recent game
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Tommie
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Re: Position from a recent game
Andd wrote:... a game I recently played. I need some help Figuring the correct response
(...)
So was the tenuki at 3 a mistake? w4 seems a little early but I didn't see how to play well against it. a and b are the points that looked most promising. I played a in game but I now feel that this is the wrong direction, play c and keep them split maybe? any comments would be appreciated.
Move
looks at least natural, perhaps option C is also feasible, as W would have 2 weak groups.However the exchange for hoshi extension keima
has already taken place, so perhaps it would be a 2 groups vs. 2 groups running fight, where the outcome is uncertain.After attempt to connect
, Black can still cut-off the original invasion ston (former W4).At the same time, a laddere is threatening, hence W10 should prevent that directly.
When checking whether there is an urgent threat,
we can verify that Black even would have sente,
i.e. would not lose 3 stones.
... and again B wins, (
= u)
is a tesuji, however more for the case that B had capped at A = 
.After the black hane H, nothing good can come out of these actions,
if white A, I would be happy to protect around Q
threatening
i) to separate the right white group from the rest of the field
ii) threatening some geta around R to separate the left group.
If W cuts directly at P after hane H, then Black could give up that stone and isolate the right.
(Despite W's very bad shape on the left, I do not see a (good) way to capture W on the left.
____________________________________________________________________________
I didn't answer your question yet ('Was tenuki
good or bad?').An extension on the right is feasible too.
If W invaded again at W4, the right group would be weaker.
Ha, again I didn't answer your question.
Perhaps I do not know the answer.
Greetings,
Tommie
3dan EGF (AGA no 13477) || Tommie on KGS: 'June'|| DGS: 'Zhi Laohu' 纸老虎 = 'paper tiger' || Senseis : http://senseis.xmp.net/?tderz ||
ENFP (MBTI) - 'Find your own style within the Fundamentals of Go! '
Tommie
3dan EGF (AGA no 13477) || Tommie on KGS: 'June'|| DGS: 'Zhi Laohu' 纸老虎 = 'paper tiger' || Senseis : http://senseis.xmp.net/?tderz ||
ENFP (MBTI) - 'Find your own style within the Fundamentals of Go! '
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Bill Spight
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Re: Position from a recent game
Some thoughts. 
Edit: More thoughts. Go is hard.
Edit: More thoughts. Go is hard.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Tommie
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Re: Position from a recent game
Bill Spight wrote:Some thoughts.
*** Does not cut the sector line. See variation.]
*** Better, perhaps.
TD: collateral damage by 'pushing from behind',
hence the mistake could have caused earlier,
e.g. how come there is a narrow extension wN3?
[*** Most stubborn reply.]
[*** Surely this is Whte's next play.]
[*** Can Black not block?]
Bill, you point out correctly, that it is disadvantageous for B to block directly.
Then B should not block directly.
I had a look at the capping play, and it looks very easy going.
Edit: More thoughts. Go is hard.
Greetings,
Tommie
3dan EGF (AGA no 13477) || Tommie on KGS: 'June'|| DGS: 'Zhi Laohu' 纸老虎 = 'paper tiger' || Senseis : http://senseis.xmp.net/?tderz ||
ENFP (MBTI) - 'Find your own style within the Fundamentals of Go! '
Tommie
3dan EGF (AGA no 13477) || Tommie on KGS: 'June'|| DGS: 'Zhi Laohu' 纸老虎 = 'paper tiger' || Senseis : http://senseis.xmp.net/?tderz ||
ENFP (MBTI) - 'Find your own style within the Fundamentals of Go! '
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Bill Spight
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Re: Position from a recent game
Tommie wrote:Bill Spight wrote:*** Does not cut the sector line. See variation.]
*** Better, perhaps.
TD: collateral damage by 'pushing from behind',
hence the mistake could have caused earlier,
e.g. how come there is a narrow extension wN3?
It looks like White came into the mini-Chinese too early, and perhaps in the wrong place.
[*** Most stubborn reply.]
[*** Surely this is Whte's next play.]
[*** Can Black not block?]
Bill, you point out correctly, that it is disadvantageous for B to block directly.
Then B should not block directly.
But then what? If Black prevents White from connecting underneath, White will just march out into the center, splitting Black and making the shoulder blow look silly. No?
Hmmm. I was wrong. Black can block and then prevent White from connecting underneath. See SGF file below.
Edited SGF. Go is hard.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Andd
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Re: Position from a recent game
So I guess what I learned most from this thread is that this situation has a dizzying amount of variations. But lit looks like from bill's sgf that b1 at D2 might have been the safest move. But what do you guys think of the cap at j5?
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Magicwand
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Re: Position from a recent game
Andd wrote:So this occurred in a game I recently played. I need some help Figuring the correct response
So was the tenuki at 3 a mistake? w4 seems a little early but I didn't see how to play well against it. a and b are the points that looked most promising. I played a in game but I now feel that this is the wrong direction, play c and keep them split maybe? any comments would be appreciated.
in my opinion tenuki is ok...
but
4 gives me a feeling of an overplay
see my variations.
but i also can not answer your question..but i am pretty sure 4 is an overplay.
fyi, i did not read all the variations by bill.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Bill Spight
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Re: Position from a recent game
Magicwand wrote:Andd wrote:So this occurred in a game I recently played. I need some help Figuring the correct response
So was the tenuki at 3 a mistake? w4 seems a little early but I didn't see how to play well against it. a and b are the points that looked most promising. I played a in game but I now feel that this is the wrong direction, play c and keep them split maybe? any comments would be appreciated.
in my opinion tenuki is ok...
but
4 gives me a feeling of an overplay
see my variations.
but i also can not answer your question..but i am pretty sure 4 is an overplay.
fyi, i did not read all the variations by bill.
Your
is very nice. The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
-
Andd
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Re: Position from a recent game
Bill Spight wrote:Your
Now If I could only see a great move like that in my games.
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Andd
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Re: Position from a recent game
Thanks everyone for the great comments. I'm sure they will come in handy when I play the mini chinese again.