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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #81 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:48 pm 
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Not Approved, I'm switching it back to Chew Terr's

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 34A - W: 15, B: 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, I'd love to unhide this and respond to Joaz directly, but I see absolutely no problem with this variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 34A - W: 15, B: 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 8 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 4 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 3 2 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . 1 O W . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


if we go with Joaz's move, I just see really ugly cut aji in our future.

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Offline Gresil
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #82 Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:59 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 35A - W: 15, B: 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As per my comments in the message preceding move 33a.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #83 Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:22 am 
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Not approved :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 35B - W: 17, B: 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X 1 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . C . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


We must, must, must keep that top stone to keep White unsettled. Letting him capture and settle his group with points is simply out of the question.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #84 Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:49 am 
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wow...so many changes.
question: is it worth the penalty to change the move?
i am thinking they are changing way~~~ too many changes.

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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #85 Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:38 am 
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My thoughts on this game, first thing in the morning
Once our group is out (which seems imminent, for the moment at least) I want to attack the bottom left black group. However, I'm not sure how. Since black's tail stone is on the third line, it can lean on both of our groups for eyespace, in addition to jumping out. I considered kicking to close off the corner, but this alone seems not to be enough. I'll consider more, but I guess that just means we'll have to reinforce our groups a bit (by walling off the corner space) before we can attack.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #86 Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:20 am 
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shapenaji wrote:
Not Approved, I'm switching it back to Chew Terr's


Chew Terr wrote:
Once our group is out (which seems imminent, for the moment at least) ...


Well...we seem to have a serious misunderstanding someplace. :-?

One of the following seems to be true:
1) I mis-read and we can get out.
2) Both of my teammates mis-read and we can't get out.
3) They read correctly, we can't get out, and they are ok with that.
4) One teammate is #2 and the other is #3.

I'm currently of the opinion that it it is essential for us to get out, and that we can't do it with this move. It therefore follows that I think that black's best move is F15, and I will be very happy if Violence does not choose it.

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #87 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:34 pm 
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This next move, I have to read a lot of stuff for. I simply don't have the time for it right now. I just graduated, and I'm flying back in the morning, so I have to spend my remaining hours packing. I'll have my decision in a few days.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #88 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Violence wrote:
...I just graduated ...


Congratulations! Where from? What degree?

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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #89 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Magicwand wrote:
wow...so many changes.
question: is it worth the penalty to change the move?
i am thinking they are changing way~~~ too many changes.

I've said this before in this thread, but I think that if you are just purely trying to win this game as a game, given the rules, people are changing moves way too much. It is hard to believe that giving away 2 points move after move is really the "correct" strategy.
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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #90 Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:44 am 
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Case Western Reserve University, Bachelors of Science and Engineering in Biomedical Engineering: Systems and Control Focus.

Now... if I can just get a job...
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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #91 Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 6:23 pm 
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Not approved.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 35B - W: 18, B: 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X C , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think it's clear why I can't let this move go.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 35B - W: 17, B: 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X 1 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's because I feel this fight is very bad for black, and our heavy group comes under attack. Removing the liability of this group is our biggest concern.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 35B - W: 17, B: 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . C . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move seems key at first glance, but much reading is necessary to support it. I don't think white can resist this move without getting an unsatisfactory result. The outcome I predict is the following sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 35B - W: 17, B: 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 7 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 3 2 X . , . . . . a , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And then white will approach the upper right corner at A. This is fine for us because we gained territory, have thickness in the center, exploitable aji on the left, and there is still play on the top. I feel that black is still playable, and in fact, comfortable here.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #92 Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:49 pm 
Judan
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
... I think that black's best move is F15, and I will be very happy if Violence does not choose it.


Violence wrote:
Not approved.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 35B - W: 18, B: 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X C , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I'm not happy. I do hope that Shapenaji has some clever tactical trick up his sleve, because our position looks strategically inferior to me.

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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #93 Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:12 am 
Gosei
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Okay, I've been looking at this for a bit. Violence, you are scary. That move is intimidating. Also, congratulations on graduating!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 36A - W: 18, B: 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X W , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Heh, being part of an open Malkovich game confused me. I almost forgot to hide my comments here. =D
Okay, so we have options here. The most obvious response, G16, will be cut.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc If I try to kill the cutting stone and connect, we die.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 1 W X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

E18 looks at a glance like we might make a ko, but I feel like that would go against us, even if there is a ko.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc However, if we force the cutting stone out, we live small.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 6 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 3 5 . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 1 W X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


I'm not big on this because it gives black a lot to work with at the top, and cuts off our stone to float in the middle.

Well, when the normal things are unsatisfying, consider the weird stuff. Let's consider the plan that I'm tentatively calling 'Those stones are ugly, and I don't like them anyways'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Wow, this is actually really tempting...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 1 2 X W , . . 6 . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

It exchanges five weak stones for one stable group. It gives more strength to two black groups, but one is alive and the other is strong already. Ah, but I think the flaw in my plan is that black wouldn't respond with 1 (because this diagram looks so okay for us).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc After something like this, we can extend from the wall to attack the corner
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . 3 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 2 1 X W , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O 7 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The prior diagram is probably better, as it looks similar but has more ko threats and such.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . 5 6. . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . 2 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 7 1 X W , . . . 8 . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


In conclusion
I keep looking at it, and it looks to me that our top group is not worth saving. I think it's worth exchanging it for a more solid group on the outside. However, sacrificing and exchanging large groups requires more judgement than I have (I have way too many kyus for that). So while it looks better, I'm not at all confident about it. Joaz and Shape, sorry if I'm wrong, but I've got to go with what analysis I have.


Well, topazg, your point looked shiny and critical. I think I want it, if Violence doesn't.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #94 Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:21 am 
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Chew Terr wrote:
...when the normal things are unsatisfying, consider the weird stuff. Let's consider the plan that I'm tentatively calling 'Those stones are ugly, and I don't like them anyways'.


I think that I have just encountered the Hunter S. Thompson school of go. :roll:

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #95 Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:37 pm 
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I do not approve.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 36A - W: 18, B: 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . W X C , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know what Shapenaji has in mind here, so I'm playing this on faith. Either he wants to live solidly but small up top and engage in a running battle with the fragments, or he wants to sacrifice the upper group and leave black overconcentrated in gote. Conveniently, I don't have to choose between those two right now; they are completely different strategies but the first move of each is the same.

If we want to live up top, it has to be done like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 7 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 2 1 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If we want to sacrifice, it should be done like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 2 1 X a , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Note that we do not play 'a' anywhere in this sequence, for the stone that it captures is a goner anyway. After 3 and 5, that black stone is too close to our newly built strength, and it is not worthwhile for black to try to save it. So by the logic of tewari analysis, if we don't need move #7 at 'a', we don't need move #1 there either.

When all is said and done, the first move is the same.

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Offline unkx80
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #96 Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:27 am 
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Not for players.

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 2 1 X a , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Note that we do not play 'a' anywhere in this sequence, for the stone that it captures is a goner anyway. After 3 and 5, that black stone is too close to our newly built strength, and it is not worthwhile for black to try to save it. So by the logic of tewari analysis, if we don't need move #7 at 'a', we don't need move #1 there either.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 3 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 2 1 X 7 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If the aim is to sacrifice, then I think this sequence is better. Now, where should :b8: be played?

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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #97 Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:04 am 
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Approved

See previous comments, I find the life here to be fine, we get a running fight in the center against their stones, but they still need a fix around "a", and 8 leaves us with great potential to reduce later on (they really don't have time to fix it)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 36A - W: 18, B: 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 6 . 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 3 5 . . a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 1 W X c , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


EDIT: I guess I should explain in more depth why I'm not particularly worried about those 3 stones. Are they floating? sure, but they're actually surprisingly difficult to attack without hurting either the left or the right side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 36A - W: 18, B: 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X b X O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 0 . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X 4 7 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . a 6 5 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


next, if black plays "b", we play "a"

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 36A - W: 18, B: 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . O . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 0 X 1 9 X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 5 3 2 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 6 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


and then we play "a" and are solid. There are many, many more variations here, but it seems like in every one we can get out and do damage.

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Offline Gresil
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #98 Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:58 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 37A - W: 18, B: 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I see two urgent aims: pre-empt a white approach on the top right, and develop the center group. This move allows both:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 37A - W: 18, B: 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . C . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 5 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O 3 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b5: might also be at the circled point.


Edit: I just realized that I didn't investigate the reasoning behind Violence's move at all—I merely looked at the present board and saw unappetizing shapes in that part. I'll try to be more attentive in the future.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #99 Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:11 am 
Judan
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Gresil's move is aji keshi.

It is also, of course, not what Violence intended. :lol: F15 has to be followed by F16 eventually, or it is a wasted move. Topazg also wants to play on the top side.

It will be interesting to see if this gets corrected. In my estimation, it is not a loss of 2 points, and Topazg should let it ride.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #100 Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:15 am 
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Approved.

It's aji-keshi, and I don't like it, but White must respond and I'm not sure if Black has lost two points for the exchange or not - I feel maybe not, and besides I don't want to keep correcting everything.

However, there is a risk that gresil will keep playing "elsewhere", so a correction may be needed soon anyway
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » Big Brother Malkovich games

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