Post your ladders!

lesenv · **#41**

move 79 and 91 gave me a ladder each.

lorill · **#42**

here's my latest one, a joseki ladder :

It starts from move 32. It wasn't played, but it can be fun for your reading exercices, since the ladder would only appear a few moves later. I added the variation in case you don't know it.

jts · **#43**

@lorill: That's a fun ladder. I think it's even better as a problem if we move L17 to K16, W pushes, and then ask whether B can hane or must protect the cut.

@lesenv: Thanks. I'm actually specifically looking for ladders that are a little bit tricky to read out because there are all sorts of extra black and white stones on or near the path of the ladder.

@araban: Good to know.

Dusk Eagle · **#44**

lorill, in your variation, isn't the ladder still good for black? I think white has to push in the top-right once more to achieve a ladder-breaker.

jts · **#45**

Dusk Eagle wrote:

lorill, in your variation, isn't the ladder still good for black? I think white has to push in the top-right once more to achieve a ladder-breaker.

That's how I read it too, but I'm not just interested in ladders that work. It's important to read out ladders that don't work, too!

Even if W pushes once move, the ladder is broken again after B hanes. But if you move L17, then B has to choose between the hane and protecting the cut. (Although now that I think about it, maybe the hane is a bit too aggressive for B, anyway.)

lorill · **#46**

Dusk Eagle wrote:

lorill, in your variation, isn't the ladder still good for black? I think white has to push in the top-right once more to achieve a ladder-breaker.

Yes, it's still good for black for now, but still a nice exercice I guess.

mitsun · **#47**

Here is the most difficult problem I have seen involving a ladder. The solution is over 20 moves deep and makes a good reading exercise even when you know the answer.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B B to play. Both ladders work for W. $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X O X . . . . . $$ | . . X X O O . . . . $$ | . . O O X X a . . . . $$ | . . O X O . . . . . . $$ | . . . X O . . . . . . $$ | . . . b . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Start:

Finish:

jts · **#48**

Ah, that's a good one. It reminds me of this: http://senseis.xmp.net/?TheFirstRecorde ... derBreaker

daal · **#49**

Here is a set of ladder problems that usagi presented a while ago on KGS. Apparently he made several sets at various levels. An excerpt of the kibbitz:

usagi [1d]: this is level 5
usagi [1d]: my own designs hehe
...
adoreme [-]: ddk level?
usagi [1d]: This one is sdk level
adoreme [-]: orly?
pentatonic [8k]: i already got one wrong earlier

adoreme [-]: penta did you read kageyama?
pentatonic [8k]: what's kageyama?
goatsunday [6k]: ^^
..
adoreme [-]: kageyama's fundamentals of go
goatsunday [6k]: he says that you should practice reading ladders until reading them is easy
pentatonic [8k]: ah okay
usagi [1d]: He just passed away a year or two ago.
adoreme [-]: yes very sad
usagi [1d]: Yes that is why I made these problems, in his honor
...
adoreme [-]: for anyone who read kageyama those problems should be ddk level

usagi [1d]: Not #4

usagi [1d]: #4 is one of those problems where you have to know the tesuji

Laman · **#50**

this thread reminded me an ultimate ladder game i saw few weeks ago at a go camp. unfortunately i don't remember names of the players (i think they were Korean, game few years old) and i was able to obtain only short part of sgf that is not even guaranteed to be correct (and failed to find the game in the GoGoD). if anyone recognizes the game, please tell me, it would be great to have the complete sgf

short commentary:

lorill · **#51**

another small one :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . O . X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O O . . X X X . . | $$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . X . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . O . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . X . . O . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X O X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O O X . X X O O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O X X . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

can black play this cut ?

and now ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . O . X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O O . . X X X . . | $$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . X . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . O . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O 2 . X . . O . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X O X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O O X . X X O O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O X X . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

crux · **#52**

mitsun wrote:

Here is the most difficult problem I have seen involving a ladder. The solution is over 20 moves deep and makes a good reading exercise even when you know the answer.

Yes, that's one of my favourites too. In case someone wants to see the whole game, it's Cho Chikun - Kobayashi Satoru, 20th Kisei Final Game 2 (1996). Go World 76 has commentary. The game result is slightly different from the one given in mitsun's answer.

jts · **#53**

This file is what I have so far. I haven't added Laman's game because I'm not quite sure how to present it as a problem, and I somehow missed Lorrill's latest.

I've been doing at least one every day it and makes reading ladders in games a lot easier. I can now read ladders where the sequence that creates the ladder isn't on the board yet, which wasn't possible two weeks ago.

Solomon · **#54**

mitsun wrote:

Here is the most difficult problem I have seen involving a ladder. The solution is over 20 moves deep and makes a good reading exercise even when you know the answer.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B B to play. Both ladders work for W. $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X O X . . . . . $$ | . . X X O O . . . . $$ | . . O O X X a . . . . $$ | . . O X O . . . . . . $$ | . . . X O . . . . . . $$ | . . . b . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

For some reason, I found myself trying to figure out the most feasible way this could come up in a game...:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . 4 1 . . . . . $$ | . . 7 5 6 0 . . . . $$ | . . 8 2 9 . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B B to play. Both ladders work for W. $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . 5 O X . . . . . $$ | . . X X O O . . . . $$ | . . O O X 1 . . . . . $$ | . . 4 3 2 . . . . . . $$ | . . . X 6 . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Shaddy · **#55**

I think it's this, I remember seeing this somewhere.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . $$ | . . 7 1 8 0 . . . . $$ | . . 6 4 5 . . . . . . $$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B B to play. Both ladders work for W. $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . 3 2 X . . . . . $$ | . . X X O O . . . . $$ | . . O O X 1 . . . . . $$ | . . O X 4 . . . . . . $$ | . . . 5 6 . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Solomon · **#56**

Crude game I played on Oro, the ladder that saved me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O X X . X X . X O O X . | $$ | . . . , O . . O O O X O O . X , O . . | $$ | . . X . O X O . X X X X . O X . X O . | $$ | . . . X X O O O O O X . O . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . X X O X O X X O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . O X X X O X O X . O . . . | $$ | . X O X X . . . X O O O O X O . O . . | $$ | . X X O X . . . W , . . . X X O O . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . O X O . . . . . . X X O O . . | $$ | . . O . . O X X . . . . X X X . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O O X X X X X . X O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X O O O X X O X O X X . X | $$ | . . . . O X X O X X X O . O O O X . . | $$ | . . . O X . X O X O O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

lorill · **#57**

my latest one (move 146, or 143 if you want to read a little bit ahead) :

Marcus · **#58**

There's a nifty ladder problem I posted in my Study Journal here: http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=65592#p65592

jts · **#59**

Here's the latest version, with new ladder problems from lorill, araban, marcus, and ez4u. There are now 26 problems.

If you see an interesting ladder somewhere else in the forum feel free to link to it. I'll probably see it anyway, but I might forget to add it the next time I update the SGF.

I'm also on the lookout for more problems where capturing in a ladder is a failure, because there is a net available. I only have two problems like that.

edit: added the sgf inside the viewer

jts · **#60**

One I saw on KGS (at the end)

Post your ladders!

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