131. ez4u vs Jedo

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daniel_the_smith
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by daniel_the_smith »

White is much better than last time I commented on this game. I think white has made up a good amount of the handicap. I think white has a 60% chance or so now.
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by Solomon »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . 0 O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It must be here, without a doubt. The fact that 20 at 'a' protects the cut at P9 is irrelevant when, after allowing White to connect, the two stones that are protected aren't meaningful at all. On the other hand, killing the P4 stones is meaningful because it affects the stability of White's group at the bottom.
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ez4u
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by ez4u »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: :b100:, :w2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . 2 3 . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think I can let Black have 23 in the future with any hope to win, so I will let him choose where next. By itself though, :b22: is a good kikashi. Imagine the sequence below. That is what the equivalent will be if Black plays away next and I clamp :b22: in the game (shortage of liberties on my two stones to the left prevent me from pushing over the top and capturing his single stone as a way to connect).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 2 O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . 1 4 3 . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . 5 . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by Jedo »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . 4 . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

According to initial plan. There was also an argument to be made for standing up:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . a . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 4 O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . 2 3 . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O b 6 5 7 . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Being able to play at a would be nice, but white's clamp at b would be super annoying.
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee
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ez4u
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by ez4u »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: :b100:, :w2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . 5 . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think that I probably lost this game in the last few plays. It is not that I was ahead before and am behind now, but I think that I had interesting chances before and have essentially none now. Let's ignore the question of whether C10 was too early. That sequence, which turned out better for White than it should have probably, ended (give or take) with Black playing H5. Now ever since I ignored Q9 in order to play C10, I had in mind that if I could end in sente I could go back and respond to Q9. However, since Black got in H5 in the mean time, there were actually two Black moves impacting my center/lower-side position: Q9 and H5. At this point I failed to reassess the overall position. I do this quite often and consider it an amateurish mistake. Each stone played on the board can have effects that ripple across our whole 19x19 world. I miss these things because I find it very difficult to build and maintain a good understanding and feeling for the whole-board situation. Normally, when things get busy I suffer from tunnel vision.

Looking at the result, I think I would have been better off to protect the lower side. The right side offers almost no follow up for White and pulling out the right-side stone has just "forced" Black to reduce my center potential. Meanwhile the territorial exchange on the bottom was a bigger gain for Black than the right was for White. Sigh! :blackeye:

Okey dokey, let's get on with it.
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by Jedo »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . . . . 6 O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A painful but neccesary move. MHO hit a good shape point here. He can take a little profit on the side immediatly and then seal up the center, in which case I'll keima in from the other side:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . d c 8 X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X a 7 . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . . . b 6 O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . 5 . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . 9 X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . 0 . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If a then b, and I think I can capture c with d
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by jts »

@ez4u

Is your despair tied to a specific count of the score, or just a hunch that you don't have enough options now?
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ez4u
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by ez4u »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: :b100:, :w2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . 7 . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Right now I roughly count the board as:
* Top left Black and bottom left White about equal.
* Bottom/left Black a little over 20 points and about equal to the area including all the captured stones in the center for White.
* Top right Black and top right White about equal with a slight edge to Black.
* The bottom right and the top side for Black look like about 8 points each, which together with the reverse komi equals 30+ points.
* The bottom/right-side group for White is open on the bottom and on the right but in order to win, White needs to have this group and the center turn into 30 points more than Black makes in the center.
My current play looks at enclosing the center and also the somewhat thin connection between the Black center and the upper right. Mainly, however, it looks for the opportunity to challenge Black to a ko with F15. This is the only real place that the game might turn around in my opinion.
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by Jedo »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . . 8 . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this is the best way to fix my remaining cutting point because it threatens to break into the middle. Leaves miai?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . 7 . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . a 8 . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . b . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee
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ez4u
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by ez4u »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . 9 X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I assume Black wants to peep at N8, but that may be less fruitful than expected. Meanwhile, a White weakness has been strengthened.
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by Jedo »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . 0 . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looks like it's going to be a close game. Once again, thank god for those 15 points.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O b . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . a O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . c . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . d . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At some point a will be big once one side can't afford to ko, b is already somewhat big and c is reverse sente for me since I doubt white would block. d is my right? However, it still seems like the middle is the most important area.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . c . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . a . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . b . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My question is whether white will play from the a direction or the b direction. Whichever way he does pushes me towards the other luckily. I'm guessing a, since the bottom has the open skirt. Loose plan is to reduce middle in sente before hitting... c???
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee
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ez4u
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by ez4u »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . 1 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

On the one hand Black is limiting the center. However, Black is not making any own territory and is leaving thin shapes behind. Let's see where we go from here.
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by gowan »

: It seems to me that White is ahead by around 10 points on the board right now. There is some "funny business" White can engage in in the upper right and still some in the lower left, so I think White could still win this game.
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by Jedo »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . 2 . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Pretty much as expected. I spent a lot of time deciding between these two moves:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . 1 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . a . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . b O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A seemed to be better if I could get away with it. On the other hand though, be is a more direct threat against the bottom. Ultimately though, I think a does a better job of threatening to reduce either the top or bottom.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . 1 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . b . 2 . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . a O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The idea behind this move is that a and b should be miai to connect :b2:
The only thing I was worried about was wether white could stop b in sente with something like
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Komi: -15; Prisoners: ,
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . 1 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . 2 . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . 4 O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X 3 . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . 5 6 O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But I can't find a working sequence for white.
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee
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ez4u
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Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo

Post by ez4u »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Komi: -15; Prisoners: :b100:, :w2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O . . X . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . 2 . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I am planning to go ahead and pull out the stones at F15. I expect something like :w1: - :b4: on the right and then :w5: on the left as shown below. I think that I need to play something like :w1: and :w3: first to make it harder for Black to connect the top to the right. Note that a White play at "a" threatens to cut the Black center with "b" while a White answer at "b" does note help the upper side Black stones. Black's play in the center has left behind potentially large cuts at "c" and "d", so I want to start the ko now if possible.

How big is the ko? Black can capture four White stones. With other territory in the upper left, I make it that Black gains about 15 points. However, White pulls out the two stones at G15 and almost certainly exchanges "e" for "f", so this is a gain of about 5 points. I think there is only about 10 points at risk here for White. There are a few points lost in the upper right to set things up but most likely White makes a few additional points in the center as well. White has an internal ko threat at "g" and can use "e" as another one. Playing "a" or "b" as ko threats is also something to think about but they will probably involve a further loss on the right. With the whole top-side Black group at risk, I would sacrifice the bottom left corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X f e O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . X O X . O . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X X , X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . 8 6 5 O X . . X X . . . . X . . |
$$ | O X X O g 7 X . O . . . . . 3 X O 4 . |
$$ | . O O O O . O . . . O . . a . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . b X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O X . , . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O . . . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . X . X c X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . d . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . X O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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