What happens if you run out of stones?

Li Kao · Post by **Li Kao** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:26 pm

jts wrote:
Li Kao wrote:Having 180 living stones wins you the game, yes. But if many of those stones are dead, but still on the board, you can be behind.

This is what we're not sure about. If one player has played 180 stones which are still on the board, the other player also has played 180 stones that were not in kos. So the only remaining empty points on the board are the spaces made by a capture of some of the second player's stones. But that implies that whichever of the second player's 180 plays are still on the board, they have no eyes.

Can you come up with a board where black has 180 stones on the board, white has 180 stones on the board minus whatever captures black has made, it's black to move, and black has not just won an overwhelming victory?

For unrealistic boards it's easy. Just think of black having a 180 stone blob without eyes but still a few liberties. And white having most of the rest of the board, with eyes. And then add white prisoners corresponding to the amount of free points.

if this can happen in a real game between decent players is another question.

Post by **Solomon** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:31 pm

Now come on guys, what if he ends up with this board position?

edit: Or I suppose it won't matter if you just re-use prisoners? Oh well, it's still a cool thing to look at.

Li Kao · Post by **Li Kao** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:33 pm

Araban: While cute, this situation can be solved with a prisoner exchange.

Post by **Solomon** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:35 pm

Li Kao wrote:Araban: While cute, this situation can be solved with a prisoner exchange.

Yeah, I just realized this as soon as I posted

. Ah well.

jts · Post by **jts** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:17 pm

Li Kao wrote:For unrealistic boards it's easy. Just think of black having a 180 stone blob without eyes but still a few liberties. And white having most of the rest of the board, with eyes. And then add white prisoners corresponding to the amount of free points.

Well, it's white's eyes that are the problem. If black has 180 stones on the board and white doesn't, then at least some of blacks stones must have liberties, because black has captured white stones. But white can only have a maximum of X+1 liberties for all of his groups combined, where X is the number of stones he has played inside the the areas where black has made captures.

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:24 pm

Redbeard wrote:If you have played 180 stones and your opponent has played 180 stones and no one has won the game you're doing it wrong.

Tell that to these people

:

xed_over · Post by **xed_over** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:38 pm

Araban wrote:Now come on guys, what if he ends up with this board position?

I hope you generated that programmatically

skan · Post by **skan** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:52 pm

Araban wrote:Now come on guys, what if he ends up with this board position?
edit: Or I suppose it won't matter if you just re-use prisoners? Oh well, it's still a cool thing to look at.

That's amazing

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:56 pm

@Araban Is there a bestiary of examples to test sgf programs? Because that would be a good candidate. I'm not sure if it's just my machine/number of tabs or whatever, but Eidogo was losing its ...stuff.

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What happens if you run out of stones?

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