Greed (3-3 invasion as first move)

[tapir]

I am always astonished how many players up to 2k KGS believe it is clever to play a 3-3 invasion as their first move on KGS in blitz games. Meh.

[OtakuViking]

I saw a really great lecture from Battousai yesterday about this kind of tactic. ama 7d tygem vs a pro player. Just check it out, it's one of the best lectures I've ever seen tbh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1HJcmn3 ... ideo_title

[Dusk Eagle]

Heh, you just gave me a good idea for how to play at my next club meeting. I'm sure there are a few people there who will like this .

[Phelan]

I would love for more people to do that against me. I loves me some influence.

[tapir]

It is a despicable way to play. After winning I usually add the ignore flag to the player (if I lose I keep playing). I somehow doubt Black in the first game / White in the second game in the replay you posted is a 7 dan player. (Or maybe I should play on Tygem.)

[oren]

It is a despicable way to play.

Can you explain why? It seems to be giving you extra points, but I don't see much despicable about it.

[Jedo]

It is a despicable way to play. After winning I usually add the ignore flag to the player (if I lose I keep playing). I somehow doubt Black in the first game / White in the second game in the replay you posted is a 7 dan player. (Or maybe I should play on Tygem.)

This sounds worryingly like scrub-ism to me. If there's a strategy that works, why is it not fair to use it?

[Dusk Eagle]

What makes it so despicable? I understand it can be frustrating to lose to a player that is playing in a way that is theoretically wrong, and I admit I've gotten angry about that before myself, but really, all it does is expose my own weaknesses. I actually look forward to playing players who are good at these unorthodox strategies as I feel I gain a deeper understanding of the positive elements of bad moves and/or a better understanding of why the orthodox approach to playing is considered better.

Actually, this attitude reminds me of the attitude I'm sure many of the professionals at the start of the new fuseki era had. There was a well established "correct" way to play, and these insolent young players were too stupid to see that the way they were playing was wrong. It was even more frustrating when the established professionals started to lose to such players.

[tapir]

Who said I am losing such games? Who said this "strategy" works?

If you play that way, you are actually saying "you are so incompetent, I do not even need to try, I can beat you even in such a funny way". Play with proper handicaps, however much, but play your best game. Everything else is an insult, not much better than those guys, who type real insults in the chat window to make you steam. If you are good enough to beat me no matter what, you can play a teaching game instead, fine then, but probably there are better ways to conduct teaching games.

If nobody in this thread sees this similarly, huh, very sad.

[amnal]

Who said I am losing such games? Who said this "strategy" works?

You said 'if I lose I keep playing' earlier, implying that loss is a possibility.

If you play that way, you are actually saying "you are so incompetent, I do not even need to try, I can beat you even in such a funny way". Play with proper handicaps, however much, but play your best game. Everything else is an insult, not much better than those guys, who type real insults in the chat window to make you steam. If you are good enough to beat me no matter what, you can play a teaching game instead, fine then, but probably there are better ways to conduct teaching games.

If nobody in this thread sees this similarly, huh, very sad.

All I can say is wow, you are really easy to insult.

[mw42]

If you play that way, you are actually saying "you are so incompetent, I do not even need to try, I can beat you even in such a funny way".

This seems to be an indication of your own insecurities more so than an indication of your opponent's personality.

In any case, when I was a DDK I used to always play the 3-3 invasion very early because it was one of the few joseki I knew.

[oren]

Just curious, would you feel the same if you started 3-3 and your opponent plays next move at 4-4?

[tapir]

For sure, a loss is always a possibility. Though I lose these kind of games less nowadays than normal games. It wasn't necessary like this earlier, but then I wasn't insulted but encouraged to play better. Is it so hard to understand that I feel bitter about winning such a game, not about losing? I end asking myself: Would I still have won, if my opponent had played reasonable moves for a change?

Also, it is pretty obvious that this is played predominantly in blitz games with very short time limits. So, the players don't consider it a normal strategy but play it for the mess up potential.

The shoulderhit on the 3-3 point is just a normal opening, what I was trying to say has really nothing to do with "my corner, your corner thinking". Well, never mind for L19ers it seems to be just fine.

Surprised. We can close this thread now.

[OtakuViking]

What's up with all the trololo? Try to be a little civilized like we usually are here on L19?

[Mef]

What makes it so despicable? I understand it can be frustrating to lose to a player that is playing in a way that is theoretically wrong, and I admit I've gotten angry about that before myself, but really, all it does is expose my own weaknesses. I actually look forward to playing players who are good at these unorthodox strategies as I feel I gain a deeper understanding of the positive elements of bad moves and/or a better understanding of why the orthodox approach to playing is considered better.

Indeed, when I'm up against a player who plays a move that makes me think "They should know better!" I suddenly start to get a little worried....after all, this person has earned their rank, so odds are if they have one facet of their game that is (what I would consider) glaringly deficient, they probably make up for it somewhere else with a strength I may not be prepared for.