Life In 19x19

theres only a few cases in dealing with kgs where i could say i deserved a ban.

the rest i can easily claim as bias against me (looking at the original post and his email, i know him well and he looks for reasons to ban me), or making uip their own rules (its been said already that all admins interpret their rules their own way)

kaya, one easy way to fix it is to have set rules and have each of your admins interpret the rules the same way.

Set rules don't work because trolls are very good at living just on the edge of breaking a rule and causing an awful lot of hassle. You have to give admins discretion or the system will be abused.

the system is being abused already.

gralanibal and his various aliases have been trolling KGS close to 10 years now and nothing is done to him because he does all of his EGR trolling when admins arent around

That's not the system being abused. That's taking advantage of a timezone difference. Happens all the time on the forum I'm on, most trolls hit during the dead hours of the night.

xDragon wrote:kaya, one easy way to fix it is to have set rules and have each of your admins interpret the rules the same way.

Much easier said than done. People interpret subjectively, and you can't easily influence that. Even if the rules are completely specific, the context is probably still open to interpretation. In my experience good admins / mods always have to be individuals that can exercise their own judgement and discretion.

hailthorn011 wrote:Well, since you input an email address when you sign up, why not implement a method that would ban the email address? Sure there's nothing preventing someone from setting up multiple email addresses to purposely troll, but how many people with the intent to troll would take the time to set up an email address for that sole intent? And this could also work with Guest accounts. Instead of just having someone sign on as a guest, tie the guest account to an email address but if they do not register, then simply have the email eliminated from the list of active emails.

I don't know if this is late or not, but just an idea I thought of.

http://10minutemail.com/10MinuteMail/index.html

quantumf wrote:

hailthorn011 wrote:Well, since you input an email address when you sign up, why not implement a method that would ban the email address? Sure there's nothing preventing someone from setting up multiple email addresses to purposely troll, but how many people with the intent to troll would take the time to set up an email address for that sole intent? And this could also work with Guest accounts. Instead of just having someone sign on as a guest, tie the guest account to an email address but if they do not register, then simply have the email eliminated from the list of active emails.

I don't know if this is late or not, but just an idea I thought of.

http://10minutemail.com/10MinuteMail/index.html

Was thinking about this, too. In any case, I have around 15 email accounts or aliases (personal, secondary personal, former work, university, my blogs and a bunch from all the work sites). If you have a Google apps domain you can have 50 emails in a moment...

karaklis wrote:

Kaya.gs wrote:And finally, i will literally take all ideas into consideration for when i implement my own Admin system .

Maybe it would be of help for the admins if they can see whether a user has received some muzzles to indicate whether he had spammed, used bad language etc.

I would also suggest to bring up this topic in an own thread in the kaya.gs subforum.

I was going to before writing that post, and i will at some point. But this topic is alive, and i'd like to use the momentum.

It would be productive for wms(and to me) to have a clarification of the problems. Any concern is legitimate, and there is always a single best way to deal with them. Very often the decision is "to do nothing" because its not worth the effort, but it is regardless worth considering.

I think xDragon's frustrated post, with the all the talk afterwards, is not about "X" admin, but about the feeling you get after getting banned.

If you do something that you dont consider ban-deserving, and get banned, you are upset. And you want to deal with that feeling somehow. You can internalize it, or you can voice it: but you cant voice it in that place, until the ban is over.

I'd state the problem as: As a user, i dont know how to deal with the frustration of an unjust ban.
(Take note that it doesnt matter if it was just or not. How the user perceives it is the important thing, becasue that is what causes frustration) .

The matter would be more serious if for example, the banned person was a KGS+ subscriber.

First, define the "unjust" ban. The original poster seems to believe that all the bans he receives, from a number of forums, are unjust, so much so that he continues to create email addresses to evade and avoid the ban. I am sure that the admins of each forum will point to the continued activity by the banned person in going back to the forum and complaining as evidence that the ban was just. I think, however, that the original poster shot down his own case when he revealed that he had that many email addresses solely for the reason of getting back onto forums where he had been banned. Who is the insane character in that game?

Best wishes.

In another thread, Li Kao said it best:

Li Kao wrote:I usually don't read rules. "Contribute and don't be an idiot" is enough as a guideline.

Kaya.gs wrote: And finally, i will literally take all ideas into consideration for when i implement my own Admin system .

I have been kind of half following this thread for a while. I'm not sure if it has been mentioned already, but I think the stack-exchange model works pretty well. You maintain activity, you get points (reputation) for doing specified things. At certain levels you are allowed to do certain things. Maybe one of those things is reporting other users. And at the admin level (which is an earned level in stackexchange, but could be specified), they can then take care of the reported abuses.

Something like this promotes involvement by making you be active and not an idiot until you get enough points. If it is a good balance, then you want to keep earning points and the incentive to spin up crap accounts to be an ass is minimized, escpecially if they are limited to a small set of things until you earn some points. Kaya already has the Karma system, maybe it could be expanded to something like this. Of course this level would take a LOT more effort to implement

TMark wrote:First, define the "unjust" ban. The original poster seems to believe that all the bans he receives, from a number of forums, are unjust, so much so that he continues to create email addresses to evade and avoid the ban. I am sure that the admins of each forum will point to the continued activity by the banned person in going back to the forum and complaining as evidence that the ban was just. I think, however, that the original poster shot down his own case when he revealed that he had that many email addresses solely for the reason of getting back onto forums where he had been banned. Who is the insane character in that game?

Best wishes.

i wasnt even talking about those other forums, im talking solely about KGS.

plus why would something completely unrelated to this case make me lose credibility?

ive seen how doug acts to other users, and how he rarely speaks to me respectfully. he tends to be sarcastic and manipulative as he was ni the original post

This is not a trial by jury, and you have brought the testimony by yourself. I have never been banned from any forum, and I bet the great majority of people here, neither. If you are constantly being banned from forums and KGS, maybe it's not (only) KGS' admins faults

RBerenguel wrote:This is not a trial by jury, and you have brought the testimony by yourself. I have never been banned from any forum, and I bet the great majority of people here, neither. If you are constantly being banned from forums and KGS, maybe it's not (only) KGS' admins faults

or maybe you should get it out of your head that admins are always right.

xDragon wrote: or maybe you should get it out of your head that admins are always right.

Just in this specific case they seem to be right.