Page 8 of 10

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:00 am
by emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . B . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The point between our contesting influence. I can't really play anywhere else after investing both of these walls.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is impossibly painful.

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:00 am
by Redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:38 am
by emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | B X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't see anything here. What's the purpose of this stone? I can only hope that W will try this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X 4 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looks yummy.

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:06 am
by Loons
Hoy, both players can look at my last post. Why did neither of you expect/want that sort've sequence ? Please share your wisdom, as KGS tells me that now, both of you are considerably stronger than me.

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:33 am
by emerus
I can't argue with your variation for W. F10 area seems worth taking sente for. I'm very unsure of the best way to take sente as B; my first plan was maybe better than the game.

Redundant can explain his reasoning better but the reason that I didn't expect W to play a variation like yours is that it is giving B profit for free. It's a faster way of playing for white and black can naturally secure points. So I didn't give it a second thought. It seems good.

(I think you beat me handily last time.... how does that make me any stronger?)

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:41 pm
by Redundant
I didn't play that way, because I didn't want the painful result locally, and I think the clamp aji is enough to reduce/invade the left side.

Now I just have to find the time to work out how I'm going to do that :D

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:54 pm
by Loons
Oh, yeah, I was misreading KGS graphs somehow (which is a profound faculty of mine).

Right, so, I was underestimating Redundant's play because it was c. 10 points in reverse sente and I always have trouble appreciating reverse sente's bigness. How joseki-y was this sequence, anyway ? I guess joseki are hazy when black has such local support. I do just know "of" the first few moves moreso than knowing them :P.

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:28 pm
by emerus
Loons wrote:How joseki-y was this sequence, anyway ? I guess joseki are hazy when black has such local support. I do just know "of" the first few moves moreso than knowing them :P.


I think that the distant attack at f3 rather than the hane at e3 is used with support towards the right. (For instance I know it's joseki with a stone at h3). I think the way to take certain sente for B is to tenuki after f2 but the way I played is another way that usually takes sente.

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:04 pm
by Redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X 2 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think this is too deep. I get a nice reduction here, but need to worry about my bottom right group.

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:39 pm
by emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:50 pm
by Redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Not sure if this is deep enough, but it's safe.

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:56 pm
by emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . 1 . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I haven't done a second of reading but no matter what, I'm too thick for him to live directly. So I will build a wall facing the bad aji in his influence.

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:07 pm
by Redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He will gain little from this attack. He must keep splitting me from my top thickness to keep up the pressure, so he won't gain the strength needed to attack my bottom group.

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:11 pm
by emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . 1 . 3 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tengen!

Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:22 pm
by Redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . X . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . W . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O O . X X . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]