[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X 1 . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O 5 X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Not only is this better for fighting, but white must secure his corner, so black comes away with sente.
If I had one pice of advice to give to Kirby, I'd say: Make your opponent commit himself. He's getting away with overplay after overplay.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:46 pm
by ketchup
For kibitzers until end of game then it's for all.
Yea! That's the way to play handi-go! Create many many weak groups and hope your opponent makes a mistake in reading linking all of them up! YEA!
No but seriously, I know sometimes it IS needed(and possibly might be the only option), but this just seems overkill. That would be fine too, if magicwand explained it, but that's not the case here. More than that, I feel like the general thought by magicwand is, "I don't care to read what he will do, or what I will do. I will win because I'm stronger."
It wouldn't even be so bad if magicwand actually even tried to put some variations down, but there's nothing like that either. It's unexplained ego, not confidence. It might be his act, but isn't he going too far?
Anyone feel the same way? I didn't mind his earlier games because I could see potential for what he was doing. This time, it feels like it's bordering on rudeness, and I'm not too sure I understand.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:52 pm
by topazg
ketchup wrote:For kibitzers until end of game then it's for all.
Yea! That's the way to play handi-go! Create many many weak groups and hope your opponent makes a mistake in reading linking all of them up! YEA!
No but seriously, I know sometimes it IS needed(and possibly might be the only option), but this just seems overkill. That would be fine too, if magicwand explained it, but that's not the case here. More than that, I feel like the general thought by magicwand is, "I don't care to read what he will do, or what I will do. I will win because I'm stronger."
It wouldn't even be so bad if magicwand actually even tried to put some variations down, but there's nothing like that either. It's unexplained ego, not confidence. It might be his act, but isn't he going too far?
Anyone feel the same way? I didn't mind his earlier games because I could see potential for what he was doing. This time, it feels like it's bordering on rudeness, and I'm not too sure I understand.
I don't know, he makes it sooo easy to root for "the other guy"
I'm enjoying the game, it's entertainment to me, and it's really interesting to watch how Kirby crumbles psychologically. He needs a morale coach and I think he'd gain 2 stones in strength overnight or something.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:58 pm
by SpongeBob
topazg wrote:
I don't know, he makes it sooo easy to root for "the other guy"
Come on, Magicwand, use that Aji - you can win that game and then play Kerby at 4 stones !
(no offence here, Kirby, just kidding)
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 5:05 pm
by amnal
ketchup wrote:For kibitzers until end of game then it's for all.
Yea! That's the way to play handi-go! Create many many weak groups and hope your opponent makes a mistake in reading linking all of them up! YEA!
No but seriously, I know sometimes it IS needed(and possibly might be the only option), but this just seems overkill. That would be fine too, if magicwand explained it, but that's not the case here. More than that, I feel like the general thought by magicwand is, "I don't care to read what he will do, or what I will do. I will win because I'm stronger."
It wouldn't even be so bad if magicwand actually even tried to put some variations down, but there's nothing like that either. It's unexplained ego, not confidence. It might be his act, but isn't he going too far?
Anyone feel the same way? I didn't mind his earlier games because I could see potential for what he was doing. This time, it feels like it's bordering on rudeness, and I'm not too sure I understand.
No but seriously, I know sometimes it IS needed(and possibly might be the only option), but this just seems overkill.
MagicWand is overplaying, but I don't think it's completely overkill yet. How are you considering the stone he just played in the corner? It sounds like you might be seeing it as another weak group, rather than what it actually is; a probe to create aji, which magicwand never expected to live.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 6:47 pm
by ketchup
Again to kibitzers:
amnal wrote:
No but seriously, I know sometimes it IS needed(and possibly might be the only option), but this just seems overkill.
MagicWand is overplaying, but I don't think it's completely overkill yet. How are you considering the stone he just played in the corner? It sounds like you might be seeing it as another weak group, rather than what it actually is; a probe to create aji, which magicwand never expected to live.
The problem with this is that magicwand explains nothing of his intentions. All he says is: "it is going to be complicated...but at the end..i will be a winner". This is actually what I have a hard time dealing with, more so than just the moves. At the very least, he could say ANYTHING actually talking about his move, but he just states that it's about winning.
I just don't like this type of play that constantly underestimates the opponent, yet keeps working. At the very least, I'd like to see even a short explanation, for example, "My opponent is highly defensive, so I will probe the corner, and make aji out of it to strengthen my center." or something like "If I can, I play to sacrifice my corner stones for more influence in the center." [a follow up would be "Even If I manage a ko in the corner for later, this is a gain on my part"], and lastly "These moves are definite overplays, but I feel, with the way my opponent is playing, that it is necessary to make these moves in order to win". All of these successfully convey at least a part of his mindset at the moment, so it's difficult to see a malkovich game played missing the whole point of what it is supposed to be about.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:00 pm
by Magicwand
$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X X W . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X X W . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i have no idea what is going on here. i am trying to play anything that is not aji keshi. other than that i do not have any plan (how can you have any plan while it is so complicated???) Kerby decided to attack my stone. and i played 3-3. it is usually better to (edit: sacrafice) 1 stone then more than 1 stone. so i decided to play corner and live.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:09 pm
by Kirby
I think this is my chance to play something awesome and extinguish the possibilities for white here. I have to think about it more, though.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:00 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Kirby wrote:I think this is my chance to play something awesome...
Magicwand's latest is gote. I think that Kirby sees that. I think that his best chance is this:
$$Bc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . 1 . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X X W . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . 1 . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X X W . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:02 am
by amnal
ketchup wrote:Again to kibitzers:
amnal wrote:
No but seriously, I know sometimes it IS needed(and possibly might be the only option), but this just seems overkill.
MagicWand is overplaying, but I don't think it's completely overkill yet. How are you considering the stone he just played in the corner? It sounds like you might be seeing it as another weak group, rather than what it actually is; a probe to create aji, which magicwand never expected to live.
The problem with this is that magicwand explains nothing of his intentions. All he says is: "it is going to be complicated...but at the end..i will be a winner". This is actually what I have a hard time dealing with, more so than just the moves. At the very least, he could say ANYTHING actually talking about his move, but he just states that it's about winning.
I just don't like this type of play that constantly underestimates the opponent, yet keeps working. At the very least, I'd like to see even a short explanation, for example, "My opponent is highly defensive, so I will probe the corner, and make aji out of it to strengthen my center." or something like "If I can, I play to sacrifice my corner stones for more influence in the center." [a follow up would be "Even If I manage a ko in the corner for later, this is a gain on my part"], and lastly "These moves are definite overplays, but I feel, with the way my opponent is playing, that it is necessary to make these moves in order to win". All of these successfully convey at least a part of his mindset at the moment, so it's difficult to see a malkovich game played missing the whole point of what it is supposed to be about.
Well, now that he's trying to live in the corner, I take what I said back - I don't know what he's doing
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:56 am
by Kirby
$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X X O . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . B . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X X O . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . B . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't know if this constitutes as "awesome" (maybe I was over-enthusiastic before), but I think I can get good result out of this. In deciding this move, I considered the following possibilities:
$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X c . . X X W . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . b . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X X O . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
strong move by Kerby. it is strong but way to minimize his force is not touch it and work from outside. sooner or later its aji will come to life and haunt him. he can have both corner and still lose if he let me have the middle. not only that i dont think he can have both corner.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
by Kirby
$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B O . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X X O . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B O . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X X O . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I cannot passively let him touch my stone without responding. I must respond. This move strengthens my group, and also gives me more side territory. I think it's the only move.
