I have the same time issue, and came to the same conclusion. Still doesn't guarantee I won't procrastinate the heck out of a move on occasion. Funny how go manages to give me time issues regardless of how fast or slow the game is.
$$Bcm43 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 9 O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm43 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 9 O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I was worried about the D12 peep before my last move, but now my attention is on the bottom. I have no interest in playing defensively and letting him have all of this cleanly. I want to make a mess, and this seems like the place to start. A) My bottom right group is rock solid so I can push my opponent into it without fear B) This could help me do something in the bottom left corner C) I'd like to destroy the center left D) If I get bottom center stones to work with I can consider cutting his center stones and making something happen.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:05 pm
by Splatted
$$Bcm43 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O 0 X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm43 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O 0 X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
What else would I do here? Locally I can either back down and let black do as he pleases, or I can fight.
Whenever I get in to a fight (not just in go) it's become a habit to ask myself "Assuming he survives what can I gain from this?", so here's my answer:
1) Strengthen my central stones: This will allow me to more severely reduce black's territory. 2) Turn my center right influence in to territory. 3) Solidify my bottom left corner: The 3-3 invasion doesn't work, but I suspect there are other ways. For example, playing G3 to create some aji and then jumping in to the 3-3 after white defends the connection to K3.
And here's what I think black stands to gain.
1) Weakening the lower left corner. 2) Weakening the center stones. 3) Destroying my potential for territory in the center. 4) Increasing his potential for territory in the center (capturing the K4 stone).
Obviously some of them are just opposites that could go either way, but I don't think I should get to upset about black destroying my center territory, because it was still quite a long way from actually being territory. If I can exchange for a more severe reduction of black's top, which is much closer to becoming territory, then that's probabvly a good exchange.
Funny how go manages to give me time issues regardless of how fast or slow the game is.
I find this applies to everything, not just go.
Full Disclosure
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:28 am
by Splatted
I'm not ready to declare this game over yet, but I am becoming more and more convinced that konfuzed isn't coming back, so I'm going to start reading some of the earlier posts. They shouldn't have any relevance to the current board situation, and this way we can resume the game if he does come back but I don't need to wait till I'm absolutely sure before I start reading.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:16 pm
by konfuzed
Hi, sorry for the wait -- I've been busy with finals. It's fine if you read old posts, shouldn't matter from what I remember. Actually I'm quite out of practice with go in general; our college internet times me out on KGS, and I just got it on my cell phone so I can start playing again. I will try to get back into the swing of things, look at this game, and make a move in the next few days.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:03 pm
by Splatted
No worries, I hope your finals went well. I only got up to post 11 so it definitely won't affect the rest of the game.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:59 pm
by konfuzed
This move feels like I just found a library book under the couch and have to return it a year overdue . Thanks, I think my exams went fine, but still waiting on the one score I'm worried about.
$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think he's a bit stronger than I am and has the advantage. Since I resolved my technical issues and started playing online again I have only been winning because of attacking weak groups early to profit; I'm wondering if my other skills are not up to par when my opponent does not make such a mistake. So far I've gone from 11k to 7k and it feels like I will settle at 6k, so I think playing a 5k will be tougher than I'm used to. I still think I have a shot, but it would have to involve me getting a good result somewhere in his area of influence. I think he will win if this is a passive game from here.
Extending here seems like it creates a bit more room for complication.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:38 am
by Splatted
Sorry for the slow move; for some reason this site wasn't working for me over the holiday.
$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X 2 . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X W X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . W X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . B b . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . B . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X a . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I was seriously considering trying to keep black cut with something like "a", but on further consideration I don't think that's a good idea. Putting aside whether or not I would get get captured, allowing black to play loads of stones in the center seems like a bad idea. My stones are quite thin, and might not do well pressed up against a black wall. It is possible I could end up capturing black's cutting stones, which would be huge, but I don't think it's necessary bet the game on that right now.
If I remind myself that the lower center was still a long way from becoming my territory, letting black capture K4 and connect his stones doesn't seem like a big deal. It's important to the strength of black's group, but doesn't gain much else, and since attacking right now would be at least as risky for me as it is for black, letting Konfuzed fix his weakness in exchange for profit elsewhere seems like a good result for me. OTOH if he doesn't fix the weakness there is some significant aji left that may be exploitable later.
This brings me to "b", which seems like powerful move in this position. The weakness of the marked stones means trying to block with "c" seems risky for black, but allowing white to break through is also dangerous because, aside from reducing black's territory, it also threatens to reactivate the aji left in the marked white stones, which may leave black's side stones having to make life locally.
I'm also a little worried about the weaknesses marked below.
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 1 X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . M O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . M . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 1 X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . M O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . M . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I was tempted to attack black's cutting stones from either the top or the left in order to fix one of them, but since defending one would probably make things worse for the other, I'm content to leave it for now.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:37 pm
by konfuzed
$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , 3 X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , 3 X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Well, it's unfortunate that he can damage my shape badly and break into the top, but the alternative of sealing off the top and letting him seal off the giant bottom seemed unacceptable. I think there are enough weaknesses around for me to make this game into a fight, so why lose passively?
Cutting this group seems pretty valuable. I'd like to be flexible in my use of this injured center group and decide whether to sacrifice it or keep it around to attack something based on circumstance.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:33 pm
by Splatted
$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 4 X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 4 X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't have time to demonstrate right now, but my reading from earlier was that the cut doesn't work now that I've played O11, so I'm guessing this is a probe. Maybe he's intending to extend with N12 and wants to set the cut up as compensation for the damage I'll do to the top.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:39 pm
by konfuzed
$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
There are a lot of ways he could respond, so I think I need to know how he intends to handle this cut before I know what my options are. I think he will be in a better position here overall but I should be left with something to work with from the exchange.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:29 pm
by Splatted
$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It seems I'm the one that misreadl; the cut does work, since I actually can't capture the centre stones, but this still seems like my best option for moving in to the top.
I'm also hoping I can gain a chance to attack his J4 stones by threatening his cutting stone.
$$Wcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 4 2 X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 5 3 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X 7 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 4 2 X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 5 3 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X 7 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Maybe this doesn't work, but it's something to keep in mind as the board progresses. If he doesn't reply to 3 I can atari and get some forcing moves. He'll almost be forced to actually capture K10, so his gain there will be pretty small.
$$Wcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 0. . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . 9 8 O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . 7 6 O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 5 2 X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This game is taking long enough that it's hard to find consistency between my moves, but right now when I evaluate the board I think this move is the best I can do because A) it keeps the top right captured and B) if I do bring my center group out it helps threaten a cut later. Of course, this gives him a chance to simply capture my center group, but that's a scenario I'm fine with too. Sure I can gain something by having him cut, but I'd also be committed to saving my group once I bring it out so there are downsides as well. I'll see if he decides to capture it and keep my options open.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:54 am
by Splatted
$$Bcm63 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm63 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'll post my thoughts in a bit.
Edit: The move numbers were off so I've corrected this post but not earlier ones, hence the sudden jump from move 59 to 70.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:06 am
by Splatted
I assume konfuzed played O13 because he was worried about me cutting off the R12 stones, but I don't think that works right now and the centre is really important; My stones are now connected so I can just attack as I please.
I think this was quite a key moment because if Konfuzed had followed through with the cut I'd have been stuck trying to make up for the loss, but instead he backed down and allowed me to make a big gain. He secured some territory in exchange, but I don't think it was an even trade. I'm terrible at estimating the score, but I think I'm ahead thanks to this.
Konfuzed has sente so my next move will obviously depend on what he does, but here's what I consider to be the biggest areas of play as we move in to te endgame. (not specific moves)
$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , a . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | b . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . e . . . . . . . X W W . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . c . B d . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . B O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X f . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm53 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , a . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | b . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . e . . . . . . . X W W . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . c . B d . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . B O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X f . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
a: Looks like an opportunity to make a big reduction, but I'm not sure he can seal that much off in a single move, so maybe it's not important right now. b: These are both very big, but as I said earlier, they also seem to be miai. (I don't have to worry about the strength of my group anymore.) c: I mentioned earlier that I was trying to decide between attacking the marked black stones in a way that defended the cut in the centre, or one that defended against an invasion of my corner. The cut is now dealt with, so this now looks like a good option. d: Saving my cutting stone also seems like a tempting option now that my centre is strong enough to bear having black wall close to it, and I think there's some good potentiol for profit there. OTOH, I'm not sure it can escape and any move that takes a liberty from the marked white stones is sente, so that fight may be biting off more than I can chew. e: Looks like a double sente expand territory expansion/threat to undermine opponents territory, but with black open on the other side, it's likely he wouldn't reply. f: Good solid profit with a follow-up for whoever plays it.
A general comment on konfuzed's playing style:
To me it feels like Konfuzed's later play hasn't been consistent with his opening style, and I think that's what's allowed me to catch up.
His opening was fast and aggressive, with widely spaced stones on the left side and top, and a 6-4 stone for his second move. IMHO this kind of opening requires you to keep playing aggressively. You have too many weaknesses to be able to defend what you have, so you either need to attack your opponent in a way that allows you to fix your weaknesses as part of the natural flow of the game, or you need to fix your weaknesses in a way that offers an opportunity to attack.
A lot of Konfuzed's later moves, like o13 and E14, have been completely passive. It's almost like he keeps deciding he's not ready for the middlegame and has to go back and play the solid opening he eschewed earlier.
P.s. I hope these criticisms don't seem out of line. I posted them because I always think it's interesting to hear what people think of my playing and hope Konfuzed/observers will feel the same way. Don't think I've decided I've won and am now looking down on Konfuzed from the lofty heights of the superior player, because although I do think I'm winning, the game is still too close for me to be sure and I know I've also made lots of mistakes. I just thought I detetected a common theme among some of konfuzed's mistakes and thought it was worth mentioning.
Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:29 am
by konfuzed
$$Bcm63 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . 9 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm63 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . O . . X O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . 9 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
There are lots of places I'd like to play, but since we each have monkey jumps against each other and mine is the more valuable one I'd like to avoid the scenario where we each block and neither gets played. If he blocked this monkey jump and I tenuki'd, he could clamp for a reduction later, and I'd be forced to let it connect.
.