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Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:30 pm
by SmoothOper
billywoods wrote:SmoothOper wrote:two strategies one emphasizing lightness and flexibility and another thickness and influence will have different tesuji and it isn't a good idea to mix the two
Right, but your strategy will differ from one game to the next. You don't just pick a strategy before the game starts and run with it no matter what your opponent's doing. That's stupid. Sometimes you need to play lightly, sometimes you need to take influence. It's not a good idea to mix the two in the same sequence, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't know both.
I disagree, certain openings IE the first move will immediately key a certain style of play. Maybe you always play hoshi, but if you play 34,33,54, tengen, etc there are some things, you just don't plan on doing the rest of the game.
Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:35 pm
by gogameguru
You're forgetting that Go is a two player game...
Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:46 pm
by SmoothOper
gogameguru wrote:You're forgetting that Go is a two player game...
Doesn't matter... I haven't played the diagonal fuseki for years, even as white, I don't see why I should start studying that opening now, it might as well be irrelevant, even if the other player likes it very much.
Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:09 pm
by gogameguru
Cool story bro.
Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:26 pm
by billywoods
SmoothOper wrote:Doesn't matter... I haven't played the diagonal fuseki for years, even as white, I don't see why I should start studying that opening now, it might as well be irrelevant, even if the other player likes it very much.
And, as gogameguru says, go is a two-player game. Anything you can do, your opponent can do. If your opponent doesn't like your favourite fuseki, they will simply go and approach your corner on move 2, and there's nothing you can do about it except rethink your whole game from scratch.
This is precisely what makes go interesting.
Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:48 pm
by SmoothOper
billywoods wrote:SmoothOper wrote:Doesn't matter... I haven't played the diagonal fuseki for years, even as white, I don't see why I should start studying that opening now, it might as well be irrelevant, even if the other player likes it very much.
And, as gogameguru says, go is a two-player game. Anything you can do, your opponent can do. If your opponent doesn't like your favourite fuseki, they will simply go and approach your corner on move 2, and there's nothing you can do about it except rethink your whole game from scratch.
This is precisely what makes go interesting.
Being able to disrupt a strategy with approach moves, seems a bit naive, since approach moves are so common, maybe even predictable.
Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:52 pm
by balmung
Yes, it is impossible to be a strong pro without being a strategist. Go is a game of war, not a game of one battle like chess. Wars have always been one by great strategists, you cannot through a bunch of men at your enemy and hope to win if he is a strategist. Let's take the Vietnam war for example. America's lead general was an expert at tactics, attrition style war. North Vietnam's general was a Go player, and used strategy to win fights. Using sun tzu's principal of sacrifice and spy's, America was forced to quit the war. In Go a spy is a probe, and sacrifice is the ability to let some stones die in the process of taking a larger amount of territory. Strategy in war and go is a master plan that is setup up in fuseki and accomplished by yose. Another Go player of interest sun tzu, he is in the top five strategists in history, the art of war teaches a lot of strategic prinicpals that are relevant to Go players.
Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:04 pm
by speedchase
balmung wrote: Let's take the Vietnam war for example. America's lead general was an expert at tactics, attrition style war. North Vietnam's general was a Go player, and used strategy to win fights. Using sun tzu's principal of sacrifice and spy's, America was forced to quit the war.
This is certainly an argument go players like but does it really have any historical legitimacy?
To the Vietnamese, it was a war for their land, and for their beliefs, a fight to the death. To the Americans it was a war to liberate others. Considering that, as well as the fact that the Vietnamese were fighting on their own soil, is there really any question of who won, go versus large army vs small army? The result just makes sense considered that way.
Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:08 pm
by topazg
To me, occasionally coming across things like this (a game of mine recently) is what makes Go interesting, and why you can't ignore the study of overall strategic concepts in the hope you can avoid them:
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . 3 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . 3 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
PS I'm White.
Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:04 pm
by Phelan
Nice! Can I see the full game?
I have to say I especially like
.
Re: Is it possible to play Go without strategy?
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:41 pm
by lobotommy
Maybe Smoothoper just use wrong word here from the very begining. Hey mr S - maybe every time you use word strategy you think a "plan".
And second thing - how old are you? This would explain much to everyone trying to reason with your unpenetrable mind.