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Big Brother Malkovich #2

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=775

Page 8 of 20

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:30 pm
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm22 Move 22a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X O B O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


W has a choice of ko or to sacrifice the corner stones for outside:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm22 Move 22a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 5 O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X O 1 O 6 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm22 Move 22a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 2 . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X O 1 O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:06 am
by Phelan
I accept, go ahead. :)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:07 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Aphelion wrote:
W has a choice of ko or to sacrifice the corner stones for outside:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm22 Move 22a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 5 O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X O 1 O 6 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't like this. White cuts his losses and starts getting a grip on the upper left corner, and black is overconcentrated. We might be ahead in points, having secured a corner and captured five stones, but white's wall is worth more, especially after this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm22 Move 22a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X O X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I much prefer a situation like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm22 Move 22a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . c b . 2 . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a 3 O X 4 . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . W 5 X O . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . W X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . d W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White has trivial territory. Black still has the corner, and black now has the wall. All of the marked white stones are now next to useless and probably cost more to be saved than they are worth. White cannot play the a - b - c sequence, for 'b' is a threat to kill. 'D' is gote for both, but useful only to white if he can match black' wall.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:01 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
More thoughts...
I prefer 1 as below:
White can still try to sacrifice the five stones on the right in return for territory in the upper left, but this time the marked black stones are connected, and the three white stones in the middle are floating.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 2 B O 3 O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The most vigorous defense by white is probably this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 7 6 9 . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 4 X O 5 O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...which continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 O X O X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . X O X 1 3 O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O O X 2 X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 X 7 O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...and this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . B O X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . 1 O O X X X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...which suggests that the marked black stone was an overplay.



and...

This is an option also:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . B O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X O . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:22 am
by Joaz Banbeck
I have to change this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm22 Move 22B - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X O C O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:43 am
by Aphelion
Joaz's move is something I considered quite a bit too, it lets the corner live in exchange for outside thickness. My only problem with it was that I feel I have to take gote to capture O14, meaning that White lives in sente.

Perhaps Joaz feels its not necessary to capture O14 immediately, or that the position still favors us even if we do. The next few moves I feel comfortable I won't cause intervention from Joaz (I think I've read things out fairly throughly), but I guess I will have to evaluate whether to take sente after White lives or to capture O14 more firmly. I suspect Joaz won't pick a gote sequence that lets White live, so I'd probably tenuki to next big point after forcing White to live / connect small.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:54 am
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Move 23a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X O W O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Connecting here seems to be the only move, unless I'm missing something strategically urgent.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:56 am
by Aphelion
If Daniel accepts:

For Joaz only:
I'd like to offer this trigger as it seems forced to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Move 26a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 3 X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:27 am
by daniel_the_smith
Approved
I'm not super happy with our position. We may end up sacrificing these stones for thickness. I think I want us to play N14 next as a forcing move to disconnect black, but we'll see what they do first.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:39 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Aphelion wrote:If Daniel accepts:

For Joaz only:
[ hide]I'd like to offer this trigger as it seems forced to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Move 26a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 3 X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
[ /hide]


I approve.

I guess what we are doing, deconstructed, is: Apelion proposes 23, I approve, we assume that 24 is the only reasonable move, Phelan will play it, Daniel will approve it, Aphelion plays 25 and I approve that too.
@Phelan & Daniel: Is this ok with with you?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:47 am
by daniel_the_smith
Phelan should answer first.
This is NOT ok with me. :w24: must first force:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Move 26a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 5 X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If we force first and black ignores, this happens:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Move 26a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If we first later and black ignores, it looks like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Move 26a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 5 . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 3 X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Is that worth a correction if Phelan accepts the trigger? It depends if I think he's likely to find the forcing move at all. If I don't think he is, I should correct it immediately. If I think he will eventually find it, I should let it slide-- the difference in the last two diagrams may not be worth a correction, esp. since we're already short on them.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:34 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Are triggers just too complex in this game? Should we go move-by-move?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:55 pm
by Aphelion
I think triggers which only require 1 response are workable, anymore is too complex. Is the current trigger situation too confusing? I personally think its ok.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:38 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Phelan? Are you there?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:39 am
by Aphelion
Perhaps we should adjourn the game, as Phelan is busy with his own issues? The format itself is intrinsically time consuming, and its difficult to continue a game like this.
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