Kirby's Study Journal

[Kirby]

Hmm, yes. I'm still confused, then. Unless the commentary or diagram was incorrect, and it is actually 3 liberties here.

[frankie99]

Hmm, yes. I'm still confused, then. Unless the commentary or diagram was incorrect, and it is actually 3 liberties here.

That does seem to be the case.

It makes sense if the diagram was like below, then we get four liberties. That way, they can say even though it seemingly looks like black has four liberties and white has two liberties, the reality is white also has four liberties.

$$Wc
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X X X X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X X X X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

[Kirby]

Yesterday at the Seattle Go Center, I met the infamous Araban. He was a little more soft-spoken than I expected. We played a 3-stone handicap game, with me playing as black. I won the game, but maybe he went easy on me.

I don't quite remember the entire game, but I remember some of it. There may be a couple of mistakes. Is it a bad thing that I can't remember my games?

(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]HA[3]KM[0.00]
PW[Araban]PB[Kirby]AB[pd][dp][pp]
;W[cd]
;B[ed]
;W[cf]
;B[cc]
;W[dc]
;B[dd]
;W[cb]
;B[bc]
;W[de]
;B[db]
;W[ec]
;B[bb]
;W[eb]
;B[ca]
;W[fd]
;B[pj]
;W[cn]
;B[fp]
;W[dj]
;B[nc]
;W[ee]
;B[cl]
;W[en]
;B[ek]
;W[ej]
;B[fl]
;W[gn]
;B[hp]
;W[fj]
;B[hl]
;W[in]
;B[hj]
;W[go]
;B[gp]
;W[gk]
;B[fm]
;W[eo]
;B[im]
;W[hm]
;B[gl]
;W[il]
;B[hk]
;W[jm]
;B[kc]
;W[jj]
;B[hh]
;W[jh]
;B[hf]
;W[jf]
;B[ie]
;W[ck]
;B[kp]
;W[hi]
;B[gi]
;W[ii]
;B[bk]
;W[bj]
;B[bn]
;W[cm]
;B[bm]
;W[dl]
;B[bl]
;W[dk]
;B[cp]
;W[qq]
;B[qp]
;W[pq]
;B[oq]
;W[or]
;B[nr]
;W[rp]
;B[ro]
;W[qo]
;B[op]
;W[rn]
;B[rq]
;W[so]
;B[rr]
;W[pl]
;B[nj]
;W[rd]
;B[qd]
;W[re]
;B[rc]
;W[rb]
;B[sc]
;W[qg]
;B[og]
;W[rj]
;B[qk]
;W[rk]
;B[ql]
;W[rl]
;B[pm]
;W[qm]
;B[ol]
;W[pn]
;B[om]
;W[mc]
;B[nb]
;W[fa]
;B[md]
;W[da]
;B[ea]
;W[ep]
;B[eq]
;W[da]
;B[gh]
;W[gj]
;B[ea]
;W[co]
;B[bo]
;W[da]
;B[qh]
;W[rh]
;B[ea]
;W[qc]
;B[qb]
;W[da]
;B[rg]
;W[rf]
;B[ea]
;W[pc]
;B[pb]
;W[da]
;B[ri]
;W[sg]
;B[ea]
;W[lp]
;B[lq]
;W[da]
;B[qi]
;W[si]
;B[ea]
;W[gb]
;B[ic]
;W[da]
;B[bi]
;W[cb]
;B[ci]
;W[ko]
;B[jp]
;W[lo]
;B[on]
;W[cj]
;B[aj]
;W[ba])

He played some stones in the center right area later, and lost them by mistake, but I don't remember the sequence.

The same night, I later played a game against DuskEagle and lost. I really don't remember much of the game, as it was a bit unusual. It started *something* like this, but I don't recall the exact sequence:

(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]HA[2]KM[0.00]
PW[DuskEagle]PB[Kirby]AB[pd][dp]
;W[jj]
;B[kj]
;W[kk]
;B[jk]
;W[kl]
;B[ik]
;W[ji]
;B[lj]
;W[kn]
;B[kh]
;W[hj]
;B[jm]
;W[jl]
;B[il]
;W[im]
;B[km]
;W[lm]
;B[jn]
;W[ml]
;B[mk]
;W[ll]
;B[hm]
;W[in]
;B[jo]
;W[io]
;B[ip]
;W[gn]
;B[ko]
;W[ln]
;B[gl]C[*White did something around here. I remember him cutting at K4 at some point.]
;W[]
;B[ij]
;W[ii]
;B[hi]
;W[gj]
;B[hh]C[I was eager to play H12 to "catch" J11, but forgot about...]
;W[hl]C[Later, he invaded R17 and I killed the invasion.

The game got somewhat close, but then I ignored an endgame threat for which he had a tesuji, and was significantly behind.

])

Then I asked DuskEagle for another game (Araban had left), but he played someone else. I then played against someone named Yao (I met him for the first time), but we didn't finish our game. He took a picture of it, and we'll continue it next time.

[jts]

Isn't the ladder in the beginning of the first game good for black?

[billywoods]

Isn't the ladder in the beginning of the first game good for black?

But why bother running a couple of stones out? The right hand star point is much bigger. (I'm not even quite sure why white captured at . It doesn't seem worthwhile. White has miai of capturing and making a base on the top side.)

[jts]

Isn't the ladder in the beginning of the first game good for black?

But why bother running a couple of stones out? The right hand star point is much bigger. (I'm not even quite sure why white captured at . It doesn't seem worthwhile. White has miai of capturing and making a base on the top side.)

Meh - play that hamete with the broken ladder in your next couple games and see how it turns out.

[M&MStones]

At move 238 in post#57 game, you played C2. Why did you not play D1? Seems he snaked into your corner taking real estate. This looks like the difference in the game, which you lost by 3.5. There must be a trap I do not see, or some other way Black would take more of a share of that lower left corner. Thanks in advance for answering. - M&MStones

[billywoods]

At move 238 in post#57 game, you played C2. Why did you not play D1? Seems he snaked into your corner taking real estate. This looks like the difference in the game, which you lost by 3.5. There must be a trap I do not see, or some other way Black would take more of a share of that lower left corner. Thanks in advance for answering. - M&MStones

If white plays D1, then black has the opportunity to cut at D2, and white will capture at F1, starting a ko. Admittedly it looks like quite a bad ko for black. If white wins the ko, it's a very close game, so almost any endgame move is a big enough ko threat to change the result. Maybe Kirby couldn't be bothered playing an endless ko or counting millions of threats.

[Kirby]

Isn't the ladder in the beginning of the first game good for black?

But why bother running a couple of stones out? The right hand star point is much bigger. (I'm not even quite sure why white captured at . It doesn't seem worthwhile. White has miai of capturing and making a base on the top side.)

I did consider trying to move with the two stones. In the end, my rationale was somewhat similar to billywoods's. Mainly, I figured that, while I may be able to escape, white would be able to attack the stones to get more profit, which would seem beneficial for white in a handicap game.

I don't know if my rationale was correct, but that's my current line of thinking.

[Kirby]

At move 238 in post#57 game, you played C2. Why did you not play D1? Seems he snaked into your corner taking real estate. This looks like the difference in the game, which you lost by 3.5. There must be a trap I do not see, or some other way Black would take more of a share of that lower left corner. Thanks in advance for answering. - M&MStones

I could have played D1, but there is the risk that he can play at D2, and then it becomes a ko (where he can either capture D1 or I kill his group).

I should have:
* Counted ko threats to see if I could win the ko
* Counted the score to see how close the game was

If I had done either of these, it might have aided my decision as to whether ot not I should play the ko. Instead, I didn't think about it much, and just played in a safe manner.

Given the small difference in points this game, regardless of whether I could win the ko, I should have at least given it more thought.

Shame on me!

[Kirby]

I came across this sequence:

$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . 2 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . 2 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white plays naively, black might get some influence:

$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 5 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 7 1 X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 5 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 7 1 X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

$$Wcm11
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm11
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So one alternative I read about was to play this way:

$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

$$Wcm9
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X 2 O X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 5 . . O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 . 3 . O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm9
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X 2 O X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 5 . . O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 . 3 . O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

$$Wcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X W X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X W X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Some other variations are given, but this is said to be even. To me, this looks better for black. White has sente, but the marked stones can be subject to attack, so I feel like white should play again in the area.

I prefer black here. What do you think?

[jts]

Hmm, I see the connection. This actually seems fun to experiment with as a H2 or H3 joseki, except that it requires a ladder.

[Kirby]

I played a game on Tygem. It's been a little while, so my rank may be a little rusty. I won the game:

(;CA[Windows-1252]SZ[19]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]DT[2013- 7- 5-13-57-54]PB[opponent]BR[2d]
PW[me]WR[2d]KM[6.5]RE[W+R]MULTIGOGM[1]
;B[dp];W[pd];B[pp];W[dd];B[jp]C[Hmm, I've looked a little bit at this opening lately.

I suppose he wants to play a game with influence.]
;W[qn];B[np]C[Sometimes I'm anxious and like to play C6. I'll be patient here. I could play R3, but given that he didn't pincer, maybe it's fine to simply play S4.]
;W[rp];B[om]C[Hmm. Yes, he looks like he wants influence. If he played R8, a typical joseki would be for me to take the corner with R3.

If I R3 now, then... He can R8, and I feel somewhat enclosed - maybe I feel like he has more influence than in the standard joseki.

So no R3... I could R9, but P7 is in a place to play with the spaces R7 and R8 between R9 and R6. So that's not good.

I really feel like his enclosing move is R8, so why don't I play there? Yeah, that'd work. Then I still have R3 for later, and I can also extend further along the side.

Seems kind of slow for me, but it's solid.

I'll go with it.]
;W[ql];B[ok]C[Hmm. He wants outside influence. I could R10 and play along, but I don't want to keep giving him all that...

To balance his influence, maybe I need a bit of lead on territory.

I'll play R3 now, get some territory. Then he will either expand his moyo or defend R3, so I will have a chance to assess and invade.]
;W[qq];B[or]C[K6 seems too hasty. I will try to stay calm. I will approach D4.

But given his influence, I'll do D6. If he pincers, I can play around the G4 area, and render his influence less useful.

If he plays F4, I can C4. If he does a typical response like C3, I pull back. It'd then be natural for him to pincer, and now, I'm happy to jump out at F6.

(A variation I'd be pleased with is shown a few moves ahead.)]
;W[dn];B[fp];W[cp];B[cq];W[co]
(;B[bq]C[Hmm, he descended for territory. Maybe that's inconsistent for him.

I can't get much territory by C9, which would be natural for me.

But in this case, I still think that jumping at F6 can deter his influence. I'll go for it.]
;W[fn];B[ho]C[Hmm. PLaying at H6 would allow J6, so he can turn some of that influence into territory.

I don't know how to approach this right now, but I don't want to do the H6 J6 exchange.

I think it's more natural to just stabalize on the left, then decide later.]
;W[di];B[jc]C[Playing around H17 would help what's beginning to form around D11.

But something bugs me about the P9 stone. If he gets in around O17, he has power that he can utilize because of P9.

I want to balance that power, so I'll approach from the N17 direction.]
;W[nc];B[re]C[Hmm. He I could play S16, he could R15, I R16, then he plays somethiung like R11.. That kind of encloses me, and is not bad for him...

I could play something like R13 to prevent this.

But maybe I can deal with it. I want the territory.
]
;W[rd];B[qd]C[Well, if he pursues this, I'll go ahead and R15. Either I capture R16, or maybe I can get some presense on the right and not be enclosed.]
;W[qe];B[qc];W[rc];B[rf]C[R14 is free for him... So I'll play there. If he ignores, I can capture S14, and that seems bigger than the corner to me.]
;W[qf];B[qg]C[I can capture R17... But then he does Q13, and it's not that bad for him. I'll play Q13 first... Though, allowing him R12 doesn't seem much better.

(**Post-game thinking\: I'm not sure what's best here.**)]
;W[pg];B[qh]C[OK, I'll deal with the right later. Now that he tenuki'd on the top, maybe see if I can get an attack in. The goal is to get white stones influence on the top around L14 area, to counter P9 influence.]
;W[gc];B[cc]C[Hmm, OK. I'll go ahead and allow the left to have a bit of a moyo.]
;W[cd];B[dc];W[ec];B[eb]C[I always play F18, then E16, I end in gote. I'll play F17, and go for sente.

It does leave weakness, but I think this group is relatively stable. If I can get sente, then I can get in my attack on K17.]
;W[fc];B[fb];W[gb];B[bd];W[be];B[bc];W[fa];B[da];W[je]C[Alrighty! The black bottom area is large, but let's see if we can set a sea of white across the top!]
;B[nb]C[Hmm. Kind of good for him, I think. There is aji with the R17 stones.. I'd hate to lose S17...

I'll defend, but I'll do so solidly. No hane.]
;W[oc];B[mc]C[He can maybe R18, I S18, then he can connect to O18 eventually...

I'll see if I can take away eyespace, then deal with that aji later.]
;W[lb];B[mb];W[se]C[First a bit of sente here.];B[lc]C[Oh, it's not sente... I'll still grab eyespace, then.Maybe I can use this to get thickness.]
;W[kb];B[jb];W[kc];B[kd];W[jd];B[le];W[ke];B[ld];W[ic];B[ib];W[hb]C[Yes, this in sente. If he does J16, I can sacrifice J17 always, so it's not that bad.]
;B[la]C[OK, now to help S17.. I can capture R18, but first 'll take S13, since he tenuki'd...]
;W[rg];B[ob];W[qb];B[ce]C[OK, this is the aji I have to pay for from earlier... But maybe I can be OK.]
;W[bf];B[hd]C[Hmm. I want to sacrifice J17. It's not in the big picture.];W[ia]
;B[ka];W[ge];B[he];W[hf];B[if];W[ie];B[cf]C[Aji everywhere! I hope I don't let anything slip through!

I'll play C13 to take away a liberty.]
;W[cg];B[ed];W[de];B[ee];W[df]C[OK... Some aji eliminated!];B[gf];W[hg];B[gd]C[Hmm. Should be OK. He has not many liberties with H16 stones.]
;W[fe];B[fd];W[ff];B[ef];W[fg];B[eg];W[eh]C[Yes, not enough liberties.];B[ga];W[ha]
;B[ig];W[hh];B[kf]C[OK, just H17, take away a liberty. He hasn't caught me, yet.

I feel OK about this game... Reduce the bottom, and I'm golden.]
;W[hc];B[gm]C[Hmm. Gotta reduce the bottom. Cut through!];W[gn];B[hi];W[ih];B[em]
;W[en];B[cm]C[OK, push through!];W[hn];B[gk]C[Hmm. This is a bit too much. Maybe I'll try to take some of what he's trying to do in there. I think he's missing the big picture.]
;W[dm];B[dl];W[el];B[fm];W[ek];B[cn]C[Hmm, do I have to play D5?

Well, actually it's a good mvoe for me, because I can play E4 follow up.

I'll take it!]
;W[do];B[dk];W[dj];B[cj];W[cl]C[Snatch him up!];B[ck];W[bl];B[an];W[bn];B[ao];W[ep]
C[Yay!];B[dq];W[eq];B[am];W[bm];B[er];W[fq]C[And he resigned.])
(;B[ck];W[fn]C[Something like this would be OK for me. Otherwise, I'll be happy with the territory on the left.]))

Position to Ponder #1 (5 points)
Early in the game, black played the marked move:

$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It appeared that he wanted to establish influence. How would you respond to this move? What is your reasoning?

Bonus Question (10 points extra credit)
Regardless of your answer from above, how would you play in this position from the actual game, a couple of moves later:

$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position to Ponder #2 (15 points)
Black has just played the marked move:

$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

How would you respond, and why?

[Kirby]

I read a bit about this reduction sequence:

$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 1 2 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 1 2 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is said to be the best sequence for both (for this invasion shape, ignoring the rest of the board).

I wonder why white has to come back and play . It seemed OK to keep going:

$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 1 2 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 1 2 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess black might play the marked intersection next... Maybe this isn't as good for white because it's "pushing from behind"?

It just seems that black's shape is so nice with in the first diagram.

Anyone have ideas on this?

[M&MStones]

I guess black might play the marked intersection next... Maybe this isn't as good for white because it's "pushing from behind"?

It just seems that black's shape is so nice with in the first diagram.

Anyone have ideas on this?

I wonder if this is one of those positions where, once black's northward line is long enough to not be surrounded so quickly, if given the opportunity, he may descend into the bottom area for territory. If so, Move#6 by white is 6.G2 for the protection of that lower space. I can think of no other reason for it.

So, given your proposition 6.J6, can black now make the double jump on his H-line down to 7.H2? The first thing I see is that a white cutover 8.H3 is met amply (seemingly) by 9.G3.

Another line to look at for white is hane at the top with 8.H7. Can black now live down there?

In any case, it is interesting white waits a while before playing 6.G2. If that black line upwards were only two in length, maybe the hane by white on top is too much a strong surrounding move allowed to white.

Would like to see the analysis. I have only been playing this game about a month now....lots of guessing going on....though I like problem solving in general.