Page 9 of 13
Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:04 am
by SoDesuNe
$$Wcm30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . 1 C 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 3 O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 2 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm30
Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:49 am
by topazg
$$Wcm30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . 9 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . 1 C 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 3 O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 2 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm30
Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:54 am
by Bill Spight
topazg wrote: Alive, sealed in, and in gote. Woopity doo.
Well, look at it this way. At least you didn't sacrifice some stones for outside strength.
Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:58 pm
by SoDesuNe
$$Wcm30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . 9 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 8 . 1 C 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 3 O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 2 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm30
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:09 pm
by EdLee
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
Re:
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:05 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:17 pm
by EdLee
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:44 pm
by EdLee
Joaz Banbeck wrote: $$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WIs the tengen
well placed after
?
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
Re:
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:59 am
by ez4u
First?
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc
Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:31 am
by topazg
$$Wcm40
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X 1 O . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O X X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm40
$$Wcm40
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X 1 O . O X a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O X X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O X . . . . . . d . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . e . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . f . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . c . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm40 "a" through "f" are all points that are generally interesting to me. However, he's wearing the trousers right now, so let's see what the big plan is
(
Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:04 am
by SoDesuNe
Maybe the last exchange was not strictly necessary...
Hard to think of a move now. I like to play
here:
$$Wcm40
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm40 But I'm pondering whether this is too slow.
Playing 'a' would feel good but my shape is too bad for this (something like White 'b' would hurt).
Additionally, there is the question, if my stones at the top are important? White is already alive, so they could only be used to make territory.
On the other hand, when White attacks them, do I have a good sequence to fight or sacrifice so that White does not get too much?
'c' to 'f' are also some ideas... I guess I should try to count and see if this can help me to decide where to play...
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:10 am
by EdLee
Bill, do you think his
tiger's mouth variation is slow ?
I wonder about the same thing. Moyo games are difficult.
Re:
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:57 am
by Bill Spight
EdLee wrote:
Bill, do you think his
tiger's mouth variation is slow ?
I wonder about the same thing. Moyo games are difficult.
$$Wcm40
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm40Well,
wants to develop at
, but guess who gets there first.
Don't let the double keima get away. $$Wcm40
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm40Whereas,
here has possibilities for development. I think that it is Tennozan. (See
http://senseis.xmp.net/?Tennozan ). As for the weakness on the top side, as Black I would be confident of being able to handle it.
Edit: To be clear, I think that White can make gains there.
The hanging connection is thick, but it just makes the double keima more important.
Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:32 am
by Uberdude
$$Wcm40
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm40 How is this even a thought?! So bizarre! I guess there is a different corner shape (black already has r6?) in which this allows black to kill off r5 aji in the corner whilst also having effect on the outside, but r5 can still easily live here. And even if it did kill r5 there are so much bigger areas. Looks like a danger of blindly following/misapplying some joseki shape you once saw.
P.S. And yes I think tiger mouth too slow as well, but the j17 weakness is quite annoying and why I didn't much like the dame cut of 33 prompting white's capture at 34. I was trying to find a way black could force white to connect on dame at 33 instead whilst also making the corner live in sente but couldn't find one.
Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:53 am
by ez4u
well placed after 
?
(
here:
, but guess who gets there first.