#244 Bill vs Ed

paK0 · Post by **paK0** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:21 am

EdLee wrote: interesting experience.

Don't you mean excrutiating? XD

Violence · Post by **Violence** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:54 am

I definitely think disrespect has its place in handicap games, but it has to be the right kind of disrespect.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm58 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O 2 . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

This is the wrong kind of disrespect. The only way for this move to pay off is if your opponent who is six stones weaker than you are misreads a ladder AND calls you out on it.

In other words, you're trying to make him brave but hope that he can't read. This is kinda inconsistent, people usually make moves in confidence with reading. If he plays any other move that strengthens the lower left group, you've just done absolutely nothing. In other words, making him scared hurts you.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm58 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . 2 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

In my opinion, this is the right kind of disrespect. The entire aim of this move is to be a little suboptimal but make your opponent confused.

Does it break the ladder? Does it threaten my stones? Should I add a move? Where do I add a move?

And the thing about this move, if your opponent acts scared, this works to your advantage. Even IF he plays the correct move, he's still not sure of the intent of this move. He is entirely unsure of whether or not this move has a purpose, it doesn't look like a 100% bad move to someone 6 stones weaker than you are, and it makes them second guess themselves.

One of the big goals in a handimatch is to maintain this... feeling of unease and uncertainty, I'm reminded of zawazawa if you guys read or watch any of Fukumoto Nobuyuki's series, you know what I mean.

If your goal is disrespect, it has to be done in a way that both tries to make your opponent more uneasy, and it has to make it so that the most likely lines of play from your opponent are not obviously good for them.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:00 am

paK0, Hmmm.

Unrelated: what's the meaning of the username, "pa-K-zero" ?

paK0 · Post by **paK0** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:30 am

EdLee wrote:paK0, Hmmm.

Unrelated: what's the meaning of the username, "pa-K-zero" ?

It is pronounced pako, but when I chose the name I was young and though leetspeak was cool, so I stylized it to paK0. I have used the handle for about 10 years or so, so I guess I'll just keep it that way :tmbup:

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:31 pm

Bill Spight wrote:
Aidoneus wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:What are you afraid of?

Spiders! I've lost count of how many times they've feasted on my eyelids at night!!

You can give 9 stones to any spider, easy.

Not if he loses his eyes.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:37 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm59 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Mon Nov 17, 2014. 11:36 am )

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:49 pm

Aidoneus · Post by **Aidoneus** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:30 am

Ed, now you're teasing me with invisible messages! Do I need to find my old Captain Midnight decoder ring? :lol:

Let the dogs out. It's 14 F here now; I don't know what the low reached. Brrr!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm60 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:45 pm

14°F ( -10°C ) !

( Local time: Tue Nov 18, 2014. 10:45 am )

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:49 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm60 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I am glad that one of Bill's candidates was K-15, which would be my sealed move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm60 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . 1 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

As for a territorial play, the one space jump to O-10 is good, building a large territorial framework in the bottom right quadrant.

Edit: Unhidden.

Aidoneus · Post by **Aidoneus** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:18 pm

12 F now and heading lower over night. I believe a record for this date here in Northwest Indiana.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:03 am

12°F ( -11.1°C ) ! :-?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm61 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Tue Nov 18, 2014. 4:03 pm )

Aidoneus · Post by **Aidoneus** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:28 am

11 °F (-1.7 °C ) this morning, Ed. And more snow in the forecast. Can't wait for January... :roll:

Sometime I read something about how much territory each move should gain on average--maybe only in the earlier parts of the game? It might have been in a book, online at senseis, or maybe even here at L19. Do any of you (Bill?) know what I'm babbling about?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm62 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:35 am

@Aidoneus

Aidoneus · Post by **Aidoneus** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:48 am

@ Uberdude

Life In 19x19

#244 Bill vs Ed

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Re: #244 Bill vs Ed