Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

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topazg
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by topazg »

Approved
This one is the last I think I can approve before forcing the top situation to be played.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Violence »

Approved.
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Chew Terr
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Chew Terr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 42A - W: 22, B: 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
There's not a lot of option here. We're in atari, we need to connect in order to prevent black from linking up.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

I approve, of course.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

This is the current position:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc The current position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Back when Terr posted his trigger post as shown below, saying that if B1 then he would play W2, I was seriously considering whether or not I should approve.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Terr's trigger
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X O 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I wanted to play this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c My disapproval of the trigger
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The direction of play for the west side white group is not to the west. Not only is there very little happening there, there is very little territory. Black can undercut from both sides. The only way that this group can make a significant contribution to the game is go eastward, like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c The proper direction of play for the west side white group
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This way, it separates two eyeless black groups.

Black, conversely, would like to connect his two eyeless groups, thereby resolving most of their life-and-death issues and creating a big wall. Once the life of the lower black group is secure, the invasion at 1 or similar is easy.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c The proper direction of play for black
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O # . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . # . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . # . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was thinking that this might happen ( note how W2 is completely out of the play ):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Terr's trigger continued
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 4 O 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I wanted W2 at D9 so that white could push eastward like this in sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
or like this in gote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Probably the best that white could hope for
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 3 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 5 b . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 8 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X c . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White splits, and then eventually cuts with 'a' or 'b' or 'c'. Black has two eyeless groups, white has one.


Actually, I wanted to be able to push like this in gote with W4 ( but it won't work )
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So the best that white can expect is to be able to split black, but not to be able to get out.



So that is the theory, shown in a branch that never materialized. Let's go back to the real game and apply the theory there.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc The current position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White has the same direction of play goals. So does black. But now, because of all of the aji keshi plays, white can get the play at W2, splitting black, but keeping himself connected.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O W 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...which - if black tries to force the cut - continues like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 7 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 6 O 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In summary, black's aji keshi play has strengthened white so that plays like F7 that were not possible before are possible now. Sure, we have to play an extra stone or two on the west side to kill the black sacrifice, but in the long run we gain more. IMHO, black is being penny wise and pound foolish.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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shapenaji
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by shapenaji »

Approved
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Gresil
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Gresil »

There are two alternatives and I have a hard time deciding between them again.

First:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 1 . . 5 . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:b1: looks inanely heavy but seems to put real pressure on white. I can not identify white's correct response.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 1 , 2 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White will be able to live easily on the top side even if he gets sealed in. Leaning on :w2: hurts my top right corner.

The other alternative is something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Easy to understand. If white extends along the right side, I continue with J16: since I have an enclosure in the top right it will not make sense for white to pincer as in diagram 2, and this order of play gives me more elbow space against white's top group. I see no good alternative response for :w2: —J16 seems unfeasibly slow and the shoulder hit on top of :b1: doesn't look very good either. Thus,
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 43A: W 22, B 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So you've got an eye?
That don't impress me much
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topazg
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 43B: W 24, B 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . C . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O B O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Right, enough's enough. Let's return to this sequence and settle.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Violence »

Accepted.
Hopefully this can bring Gresil up to speed on what we want.
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Chew Terr
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Chew Terr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 44A: W 24, B 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Okay, so the last time we moved in this vicinity, I tried to do something fancy, with J16 intending to sacrifice D18. The only other alternative I had read before is living small, with the diagram below. Joaz changed my move to the first move of that diagram.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc However, if we force the cutting stone out, we live small.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 6 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 3 5 . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 1 W X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
If I can't think of any other viable alternatives, I'm going to assume that Joaz preferred this live-small diagram and the safety it provides, and I'll play it out until corrected.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc This doesn't get trapped in, but it seems less safe.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 1 W X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
This diagram's actually kind of intriguing, but I think it'd be better to settle our groups more solidly in almost-sente and be able to play somewhere else. Here goes.

As an aside, I'm not sure about this board as a whole, but that prisoner count is starting to look helpful.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc As another aside, the double-atari at 4 doesn't work because we die.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O 8 2 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 1 W X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

I approve.
Younger brother is making good moves, but again for maybe not the best of reasons.

Chew Terr wrote:
Okay, so the last time we moved in this vicinity, I tried to do something fancy, with J16 intending to sacrifice D18. The only other alternative I had read before is living small, with the diagram below. Joaz changed my move to the first move of that diagram.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc However, if we force the cutting stone out, we live small.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 6 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 3 5 . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 1 W X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
If I can't think of any other viable alternatives, I'm going to assume that Joaz preferred this live-small diagram and the safety it provides, and I'll play it out until corrected.
There are at least three possible lines here:
1) The inferior sacrifice.
2) The better sacrifice
3) living small but solid

This is the inferior sacrifice:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 2 3 X 1 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
This is the better sacrifice:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 2 1 X a , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
And this is the live small option:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 7 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O 2 1 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

He assumes that when he intended to sacrifice our upper left group as in the first diagram, and I changed his move, I therefore did not like the sacrifice, and was aiming for the third diagram. This is not true. There are at least two ways to sacrifice here, and I changed it allow the better sacrifice. At the same time, I left open the live-small option. The move at G16 - which I am going to approve - allows either the second or the third diagram.

He further assumes that I'm guiding this. That is not really true either. If I were in charge here, we would not be sacrificing, nor would we be living small. We would live by fighting in the center.

Terr has assumed that I am doing this, and so he is following my lead, trusting that I have a good plan. However, I am in the dark almost as much as he is. It is Shapenaji who has decreed what we will be doing, and I'm just following his lead, trusting that he has a good plan. :lol:

This leads to two possible outcomes:
1) Shapenaji intends to sacrifice, and prefers the better sacrifice, while Terr aims to live small because he thinks that I prefer it. This will cost us a bunch of prisoners, but will probably provide great amusement for the audience.
2) Shapenaji intends to live small, and Terr will play to live small, and we play the next several moves with no loss of prisoners. I say 'no loss' because I will be chosing the live-small option when possible.


An additional comment:

A few moves ago, I was undecided between living small and sacrificing. I now prefer living small. This is because of the recent white aji-keshi plays. As I noted in my last post, the aji-keshi has strengthened us enough so that we can forcibly push through at F7, like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 7 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 6 O 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Being able to push through eastward like this keeps pressure on the black center-left group from the south. That only means something if we are alive in the north. So keeping the north group alive is worth more now, and I don't like the idea of sacrificing it.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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shapenaji
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by shapenaji »

Approved
Heh, well, it's continuing like I thought, poor Joaz, he must think me truly insane to like this small life... but there it is, maybe I am insane, but I really like the aji here for white (see earlier comment)

Regarding the sacrifices, I don't like either of them, the wall isn't really that strong, black ends up with a towering wall over us with no weaknesses. But if you're going to sacrifice:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O a 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O 1 2 . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X W X b , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

"a" creates rather a large ko, if we have the threats (which we don't)
"b" builds thickness and threatens the ko

I don't particularly like this, white has thickness but nothing to attack, he would have to *gasp* use his thickness to make territory... meh, not my style.

The small life looks odd at first, but I think there's a lot we can do with it
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Gresil »

I'm stranded in someone else's game.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 45A: W 24, B 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O 6 O 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X 7 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This :w4: won't do.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 45A: W 24, B 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O 1 2 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I can't read this variation any further. Just this once I'm going to play a move I don't understand.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 45A: W 24, B 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So you've got an eye?
That don't impress me much
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topazg
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by topazg »

Approved.
And happily so :)
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Magicwand »

if i was to play such games(Big Brother) with professionals i would play moves i dont understand if they tried to cut as such.
i am not saying that cutting is a good move! it probably is bad but i am not sure.
but when they start the push..and if you dont cut... the stone loses it's merit.
in korean professinal revews you will see that word "merit" many many times.
i hope people grasp that concept and use that in their reading.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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