[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X X O . . X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . B . O X X X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . W . . O O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I want to see this next.
Why?
White is behind by at least 20 points. He must either make lots of territory on the remaining board while black makes very little, or he must reduce/invade black's territory. The former prospect is not good: there are roughly equal opportunities for white up north and for black in the east. Getting 20+ points difference is very difficult under these circumstances. Unlike the territory-making option in which the chances are roughly equal, the latter prospect of reducing/invading is more suited to white's situation. White's territory is rather solid. Black's has some gaps in it.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X X O . . X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . B . O X X X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . O O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 4 X O . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . W 3 2 O O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . 5 X X . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X X O . . X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . 1 . O X X X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . O O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 3 X O . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It would explain why there's so much talking...
Anyway, I'm doing it. Hopefully I'm not missing something obvious.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:59 am
by Laman
so this is how it ends after all? seems he just caught me...
black outplayed me simply in everything, it makes me sad. if i won't come up with something smart, i can resign instead of prolonging it more
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:49 pm
by Laman
my group is dead and i cannot do anything about it. that means black has much better position. even if i might still fight in another game, i was clearly worse in this one, so nothing indicates that i could turn the situation around and i am also too disappointed about the progress so far. die like a man
i resign. thank you for the game. you were too good for me. now let's read the hidden comments
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:51 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Good game Laman. I think you've let your fears in on you a bit though - I really don't feel like I was outplaying you throughout. For me at least, in long games like these, when you can't determine what is best, it leads to the feeling that your opponent is outplaying you, always knowing what is best, when in reality they don't know any more than you do.
Anyway, I just read the comments, and they were all quite interesting. I'll have to think about some of them though. For instance, I thought my one-space jump on the bottom was a good move for trying to force white into forming a weak group, but Magicwand was especially critical of that move, so I'll have to reconsider my thinking there.
Well, it was fun. Have a good day!
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:20 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Thanks to both of you. It was fun and enlightening to watch.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:50 am
by Bill Spight
Dusk Eagle wrote:Anyway, I just read the comments, and they were all quite interesting. I'll have to think about some of them though. For instance, I thought my one-space jump on the bottom was a good move for trying to force white into forming a weak group, but Magicwand was especially critical of that move, so I'll have to reconsider my thinking there.
Looking just at the bottom side, I cannot be very critical of the jump. No play looks particularly good. The jump feels too close to the secure White corner, while an extension to "a" feels too close to the Black wall. And, thanks to , Black will have an open skirt either way. (Perhaps Black's approach would have been better at E-02 instead of F-03.)
But looking at the whole board, isn't the right side the place to play instead? At , for instance?
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:41 am
by Shaddy
FWIW, I'd play the jump without thinking in that situation. If I had to pick another move, though, I'd play H4. A two-space extension feels too low and too close to the incredible thickness on the right.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:23 am
by Dusk Eagle
If anyone is still looking I have one more question. Where would you play in this situation?
I played 'a', but Magicwand suggested 'b'. Does anyone else have an opinion on this position?
i would never suggest 'b' above. i said 'b' below. your jump is weak leaving bad aji. when you are ahead you need to play solid game without giving your opponent a chance to comeback.
if he wants to play there ...marked stone is correct. what he played is full of bad aji and weak. i am thinking "a" is a correct move though.
Did you mean something else?
Black's move at BB is the best in this area. It is a junction area between two moyos so moves here are big for both sides. The problem with your move at A in the next diagram:
[quote]
$$Bcm1 Move #43, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . A . . . . . | $$ | . . . . C . . . . . . . B . . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . a , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #43, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . A . . . . . | $$ | . . . . C . . . . . . . B . . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . a , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
is that when the timing is right White can play at B and start a fight here which would cut off the A stone and possibly ruin Black's moyo.
I don't like your idea of a move at a because it is too small scale. Also, because Black's bottom side position is open at the left, the move at a suffers from being an attempt to make territory of an area that is open at the edge, a common mistake. Because of this open-at-the-edge problem I think Black should aim to make his territory higher, toward the center. The move at B helps that and Black might also aim at playing around C to broaden his moyo into the center.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:09 pm
by Magicwand
i must have misprinted 'a' in my previous diag. sorry for the confusion.
, Black will have an open skirt either way. (Perhaps Black's approach would have been better at E-02 instead of F-03.)
, for instance? 