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Big Brother Malkovich #3

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3133

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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:25 pm
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm20 Move 20... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(3) W-6(8)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . W . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I considered C16, but I don't like F17 in reply.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:12 pm
by Marcus
approved

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:00 pm
by Phelan
Bump. It's Violence's turn, right?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:24 pm
by jts
Phelan wrote:Bump. It's Violence's turn, right?

Yes. :cool:

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:58 am
by dangomango
seems like this game is going to break

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:02 pm
by jts
Well, Violence hasn't signed on in nearly a month. From his posts it seems like he occasionally gets busy times, work-wise.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:19 pm
by Violence
My bad guys. Work is busier, and I had net problems, and I just plain forgot about this Malkovich(I've been thinking about Malkovich 1 much more often) I'll reply more frequently.

Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:06 pm
by jts
I'm thinking. Many options, nothing that smacks me as obviously the best move.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:53 pm
by jts
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm20 Move 20... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(3) W-6(8)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Eh. This is a phase of the game that I have trouble with. I genuinely have trouble telling the difference between what's playable and what's unplayable, let alone what's great versus merely good, at junctures like this. This was my first instinct; further analysis suggests that we're weakening our group by playing this way. Yet further analysis reveals that it would be risky for W to seal us into the corner, since if our group lives between his two groups, he's got nothing.

I'm not sure how to best improve our position elsewhere. Thoughts include: P5, L3, K4, N17, Q17. Or G10. I don't know. It seems difficult to threaten their groups, or to box off more territory for ourselves, I kinda like the idea of play M8 and trying to separate one of their groups from the other two, but in my experience that sort of idea never works as well as reduction.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:05 pm
by Shaddy
jts wrote:Yet further analysis reveals that it would be risky for W to seal us into the corner, since if our group lives between his two groups, he's got nothing.
[/Hide]

While I am not sure yet if this is a good move or not yet (I suspect not), this way of thinking is kyu-ish. White will not have nothing if he seals us in, he'll have an attack on our group. We should not just be asking for life, because white will get valuable forcing moves against us and we're going to make like no points with that group. (I am not sure how severe the attack will be, to be fair. It definitely won't be fun, esp. because Violence is over there and I bet he can outfight me) We're doing fine on points, there is no need to play something like this. I dunno if I should correct this, though.. I'd much rather have something like l3.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:54 pm
by Violence
Go on.

Approve it.

Come at me, bro.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:14 pm
by dangomango
denied
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm20 Move 20... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(3) W-6(8)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . B . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

c17 is definitely an option but it doesn't seem to gain much
but also seems to be aji keshi
i rather keep c17 an open option

I'm thinking this plan to get more territory while keeping whit e groups weak like below
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm20 Move 20... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(3) W-6(8)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


and if we move elsewhere, white gets to play somewhere around o4 area
and a move like this not only strengthens whites weak groups but also try to build some type of moyo in the center and black will likely be sealed off
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm20 Move 20... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-7(3) W-6(8)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


these are my major thoughts when i picked this L3 move
any thoughts especially from spectators are welcome

i think this is near the turning point of middle game which is why i made the change

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:51 pm
by Shaddy
Approved.

Black's getting a lot of wonderful cash. I like it.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm20 Move 20... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-6(10) W-6(8)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . B . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:13 am
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Move 22... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-6(10) W-6(7)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I wanted to invade, but that would leave this group weak. This should help it connect with G8, at least, and it threatens N3.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:43 am
by Marcus
Approved.

I'm still wary of making a change after the last few. This comment isn't necessarily reflective of this move, but somewhere down the road we're going to have to make a change, I think ... I hope I can spot the right change to make, because I'd prefer to make the change over leaving it to Violence (one change point loss vs two) ... tricky, tricky ...
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