103. EdLee vs topazg

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:43 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm54 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X 1 . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:05 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm54 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X 1 . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:12 am

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:29 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:48 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . 2 . . X . . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O C 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Rejected moves:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . 2 . . X b . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O a . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O C 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

If he gets the point I just played, he can develop quite a lot of points in sente against my group. This is undeniably worse with respect to the corner, but globally I think this may be a fair bit bigger than either of the corner moves.

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:54 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm1 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . X . . X 1 . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O a . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

I think topazg should have taken 'a'. Now that he didn't, as white, I would take :w1:

automatically. The difference in points in the corner is quite huge, and white's group becomes so much more safe than if black takes 'a'. Black's group also starts to become weaker with :w1:

above.

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:53 am

Ok, that move deserves a bit of explanation, as it's rather questionable (although, for the time being, it's an experiment I still stand by!). So, why would I neglect the corner in this way, as he clearly gets to hane in sente, right?

Actually, the following area is the one I see as pivotal for this game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . x x x x x . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O x x x x x . . . X . . | $$ | . . O O O O . x x x x x x O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . x x x x x x . X O C 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . x x x x x x . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . x x x x x x . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X x x x x x x . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O x x x x x . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

So, I'm making an unusual sacrifice of sorts. If White responds to me, I probably get this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . 6 4 2 . . X 8 . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , 7 5 3 O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O C 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

In this case, it's some kind of semi-awesome forcing move first I guess, and there's some good aji in the middle still to play with - even without it, I have some fairly good points to boot.

If I take the obvious move, this scares me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . x . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . 3 . . X 2 . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . d b a X O C 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . e . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

The best I can see locally is "a" -> "e", and I'm not convinced I can get much compensation for the fact he can build points on the top (even with the open skirt), especially as he can get moves like "x" in sente too. Now we just both have sort of floating groups.

I'd be more likely to respond locally as well if I could keep him low on eyes, but I'm not even convinced of that:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . X 3 . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X C 2 . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 4 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . X 2 . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O b . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . a . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

I can't quickly and easily cut off his abilities to make eyes over here, and if I try and fail, then I gain absolutely nothing from it. All his thickness faces this sort of center - center/right area, so building a framework here is really hard for me, and I can't see an easy way of creating good kill threats that turn into points. Without them, I could just end up with a weak group of my own. So, I'm comparing the result in my head to this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . W W . . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . W B . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

I don't get so many points on the right here, and White's ability to make a lot of points at the top is pretty huge, and he has no weak groups either. My view of the final position here is something more like:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 8 7 6 9 . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . 4 . . 2 . 5 X 3 . | $$ | . . O O O O 0 . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O C 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Ok, I'm not actually sure about the last move, but you get the idea. Because of the that cut threat, I may be able to get to extend in sente. If so, I'm happy with this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . 4 . . 2 . . X 3 . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . . X O C 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

If not, I've neutralised most of the middle, got a basically stable group, and have some good potential to attack. I consider this to be better than the joseki I decided against, and less risky than playing the local corner move first.

It's another one of my crazy experiments I'm afraid :S

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:49 pm

Further thoughts:

Actually, more philosophies and thoughts about my approach rather than game sequences:

It's funny, the more I look at my move, and my reasoning, the more I think I'm a crazy man. How could I possibly call this less risky than securing the corner? This is a ridiculously ambitious plot, that frankly I suspect may be one of my Cunning Plans. However, my train of thought that lead me to be happy with it was an interesting enough ride to me that I'm going to share it (and, if these sorts of ramblings turn you off, let me know and I'll stop!):

I'm actually going to stand by this move from some kind of pedagogical high ground. The day I stop experimenting with crazy ideas is the day I stagnate as a Go player. I'm sure there's enough difference between my move and the corner, albeit based on some precise reading, that a professional player could say with complete authority which one is better. I'm equally sure that a player of my strength will either like it because it looks crazy and fun, dislike it because it looks like a complete disregard of local common Go theory, or have mixed or ambivalent feelings (I've gone from disliking it, to liking it, to thinking it was a blunder, to loving it, to feeling completely confused about it today - yes, I have been thinking about it that much!).

Despite this, I've realised this move embodies my current approach to Go. I'm really trying to improve this year, and that means not playing "this is the sort of instinctive move I always play here" type moves. I won't let my rather sad little knowledge box of Go theory get in the way of breaking out an experimental hypothesis once in a while. So much of life hangs on the enjoyment of those "what if this could be the one?" risks, and I think the same applies to Go. This is the sort of moment when I think to myself "This could be rubbish, and it could be great, and I'm just not strong enough to know - the fact it might be great is enough for me to take the plunge".

Hopefully, it will work. If it doesn't, hopefully I'll have learned something. If I don't, at least I'll have enjoyed the ride

And just one more thing:

Ok, this isn't just one of those "Ha, I can do something crazy and different that no-one would ever suspect" moves. I also couldn't see a way of avoiding this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm56 Looks ok so far ... $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . 3 . . X 2 . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . 7 5 4 X O C 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm64 Continuation ... $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . O 3 4 X X . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . O O X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 5 O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . 7 O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . 8 . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . 9 , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

I'm really pretty unhappy now, and I'm not even completely alive am I? I mean, neither's White, but he's just made a bunch of points at the top, and I was hoping to retain the chance to make territory where I'm about to force him to run through. Unless I kill the White dragon, haven't I just lost out a lot here?

And another more retrospective thing:

I'm slightly wondering whether I should have pincered in this corner at all. I can get a big corner with the following sequence, but does the end look a bit hairy, or ok?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm51 A parallel universe $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 7 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 W 5 . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . 9 . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:49 pm

A few variations I was reading when B hit with :bt:

(

)
(note I thought B would hane with :bx:

instead of the nobi (n) in the game):

Difficult for me to judge whether (a) and (b) were miai:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$--------------- $$. . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . | $$. b . . X a . | $$. O X X O . . | $$. . X O Y 1 . | $$. . . O O . . | $$. . . . . . . | $$. . . O X . . | $$. . . Z n . . | $$. . . , . . . | $$. . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . |[/go]

Variation 1. Both :bc:

and

groups are not settled;
while B has (c), W also has (d). My conclusion: Unclear.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Prisoners $$--------------- $$. . . . . . . | $$. . d . . . . | $$. 2 . . X 1 . | $$. O X B O c . | $$. . X O . O . | $$. . . W O . . | $$. . . . . . . | $$. . . O X . . | $$. . . X . . . | $$. . . , . . . | $$. . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . |[/go]

Variation 2. Similar to Var 1, but B starts the ko. My conclusion: Also unclear.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Prisoners $$--------------- $$. . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . | $$. . . . X 2 . | $$. O X X O 1 . | $$. . X O . O . | $$. . . O O . . | $$. . . . . . . | $$. . . O X . . | $$. . . X . . . | $$. . . , . . . | $$. . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . |[/go]

In the game, B got :b1:

, which is big, but now W can :w2:

,
and it seems :ws:

is much more settled than :bs:

:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Prisoners $$--------------- $$. . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . | $$. 1 . . X 2 . | $$. O X # O . . | $$. . X O . O . | $$. . . @ O . . | $$. . . . . . . | $$. . . O X . . | $$. . . . X . . | $$. . . , . . . | $$. . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . |[/go]

More local and global reading... :study:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:43 am

Back at

...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm48 $$ -------------------- $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$, . . . O . X . . . | $$. . . . . 2 . X . . | $$. . . . . . 1 O . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$, . . . . . , . . . | $$. . . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Another variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ -------------------- $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . 9 . . . | $$. . . . . . 7 8 . . | $$, . . 5 O 3 X 2 . . | $$. . . 6 4 X 1 X . . | $$. . . . . . O O 0 . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$, . . . . . , . . . | $$. . . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Cont'd:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm11 $$ -------------------- $$. . . . . . . . 7 . | $$. . . . . . O 5 6 8 | $$. . . . . . O X . . | $$, . . O O O X X . . | $$. . 1 X X X O X . . | $$. . 3 . . . O O X . | $$. . . 2 4 . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$, . . . . . , . . . | $$. . . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Compare to this variation at :w48:

:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm48 $$ -------------------- $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . 3 1 2 . . | $$, . . . O . X . . . | $$. . . . 4 . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . O . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$, . . . . . , . . . | $$. . . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

My conclusion: Unclear.

So the positions at :b47:

,

=(a),

=(b) were very difficult for me to evaluate
because of the explosions of variations, including W (c) attach, W (g) push, W (e) peep,
W (d) lean, W (h) 3-3, W (f) hane:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm47 $$ -------------------- $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . c h . . | $$, . . . O . X . . . | $$. . . . . b g 1 f . | $$. . . . . . a O . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . d X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$, . . . . . e . . . | $$. . . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:04 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm58 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . X . . X 1 . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

(p)

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:34 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm58 Prisoners $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . 2 . . X . . X 1 . | $$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:33 pm

Aphelion · Post by **Aphelion** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:38 pm

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
topazg wrote:...I can't respond to that, without admitting my last move was a blunder ...

The LBJ school of go?

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:09 pm

For Aph, Joaz, topazg

Life In 19x19

103. EdLee vs topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg