127. ez4u vs topazg

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:05 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . 4 X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . . O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Psychee · Post by **Psychee** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:55 am

When my last time came to read the post, lower right part was black's moyo. and now lower right center looks liks white's?

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:47 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 . . X . . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . . O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ok, I figured he'd hane the other side. Presumably he still will? This seems slightly better for me than that alternative:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Better for Black? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 8 5 9 . X 7 . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . 4 X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . 6 O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:11 pm

For observers:

:b73: probably looked a bit funny, but I'm pleased with the choice, as I considered it genuinely urgent. However, I think both "why?" and "why then?" deserve an explanation, so here are some of my thoughts and considerations.

Why not before my 3-3 invasion? If I take it straight away, White makes considerable points in the corner, and my move is effectively dame. It's still not small, as it fixes that annoying cut, but it doesn't do anything to prevent White from making fairly efficient points:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm67 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . . . . 2 . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . . . O . . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here I feel dissatisfied, as it isn't clear what the further purpose of the move is, other than to connect. My biggest concern was White creating thickness in sente from my invasion, and then cutting - it looks like maybe that was hard for White to do, but something like this was really worrying me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm75 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . 1 X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . W O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 5 7 . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . C . . 6 4 3 X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X 2 X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . b . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now not only do I have to protect my poor left group in gote, but White builds points, and further thickness. Moves at "a" and "b", for example, suddenly create swathes of points that I have no good way of reducing. In very short order, all my effort at building points is quickly overtaken by White generating large amounts of territory in very few moves. However, by invading the corner, and keeping sente (albeit accepting small local point losses in doing so), allows me to negate the area marked with a circle, and gives me the potential to reduce further, such as with the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 . . X 7 . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . 6 O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . 9 . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . c . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't want to play this shoulder hit just yet, as the lower left must be settled first, and frankly, I still don't know what White's going to do with his sente, but it surely must be in the lower left somewhere. However, it's clear from the final position here that those further moves around "a", "b" and "c" are, whilst not quite dame, not capable of generating the territory I was fearing White would achieve in the centre.

As a result, :b73:

felt very urgent to me. It's counter-intuitive in a way, as it's clearly gote, and doesn't generate me any points. However, as discussed in the other thread on "big and urgent", an urgent move is one that, if not taken very quickly, changes the global landscape in a substantial way, and has impact that stretches into the future with regards to the strategic direction of the game.

I remember a really interesting thread a while ago (I think it was another Malkovich game) where someone stated they it was bad to let your opponent get what they wanted, and Bill very insightfully responded that he prefers to win games where he gives his opponents exactly what they wanted (but obviously not what they needed). I can't remember the post, but if anyone knows, feel free to link it. Anyway, I've realised that a lot of my play revolves very much around this concept. Give my opponent territory at a point where the thickness is more valuable to me, and make it tempting enough that my opponent takes the bait. Give my opponent thickness at the point where I can find a move or two that neutralises its impact enough to make sure that any territory I can gain has greater value, and so on. I don't claim to be very good at this, else my rank would be higher (I can barely hold KGS 2d on a good day, and that makes me weaker than both my opponent here and a number of the other observers that have commented on the game), but I have noticed I tend to base my plans around this sort of idea.

The reason I've left the lower left for as long as I have is it has an inherent sort of miai value about it. White can give me a) or b), and take c) or d) himself, but none of them are locally particularly bad in their own right. The game is developing around the idea that, at some point, the corner becomes urgent when any given result is suddenly significantly advantageous to the other player, but I'm still not convinced we've quite reached that point. However, because I'm aiming at the reduction ( :b79:

in the third diagram), I suddenly want to settle the lower left so I can play it without harming my left hand side. Finally, this gives me a reason for treating setting those stones more urgently, as I have a forward plan that partly relies on me doing so.

Having just said all this, Dave is definitely going to get sente after he finishes poking around in the corner, and how he uses it will have a really big impact on what's left of the board. I haven't even bothered really counting in detail yet, as there's just too much up in the air still. However, I do at least feel like the board is close enough to be an interesting game for both sides.

I must admit, I'm glad I took a break from Go for a while. This is the first time I've been able to properly put real effort into a Malkovich since my first game against magicwand back on GD, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I hope it's still interesting to those observing

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:45 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X . . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . 6 O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:48 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X 7 . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:34 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:18 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:46 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm79 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If you agree with :b81:

I will

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:33 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . a . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X b O X O . . | $$ | . 5 4 O . . . . W , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . 9 3 6 . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The "standard" result from here is this. If this is indeed where we get to, White has sente and is comfortable. Having the marked stone in place prevents Black from playing strongly against my lower left. I had this issue in mind when I answered :b45:

with

. It may have been "over thinking" at that time but now we have come full circle.

I am mainly considering a next play from here at either enclosing with "a" or taking time to cut with "b" first.

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:22 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | 6 C O 3 . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O 1 . 7 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:36 am

Ok, so standard is something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . 2 4 b . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | 6 C O 3 . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O 1 a . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Unfortunately, both "a" and "b" are left as really big points, and what's more, the continuation leaves White keeping my corner small, and taking sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm87 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . a . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O . b . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . 3 2 O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . 7 1 4 . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Playing

@

just makes my other left group fall apart into very small pieces, and there are so many moves around "a" and "b" that threaten to make large amounts of points, that this feels tantamount to throwing the game. I play my variation, because if he chooses now to protect the corner, I get the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm87 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . 4 X . . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . b . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This feels ok to me, and I'm now facing down his ability to develop the center, and I have sente. I'm sure White would love to cut with :w90:

, but I haven't finished reading out the following yet:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm87 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . 8 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | 0 9 X 4 6 . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm97 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . 4 5 . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . 1 O 3 . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | 2 O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | O X X O O . 7 . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It feels like overplay, and if I die, I die big. If so, I let him cut and hane over the top instead, but we'll read it if I have to make that decision. I suspect I won't, as I don't think White has time to defend the corner, and has to play this way instead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm87 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X . 4 5 . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O 2 3 7 . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . 8 O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This still looks good enough for White to me, so I'll probably have to start doing some real counting when the dust settles.

My spider senses give me 15-20% chance of winning the game right now, so I'm not optimistic, but I haven't counted in enough detail to be more sure yet.

Prodigious · Post by **Prodigious** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:40 am

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:02 am

Prodigious wrote:
$$Bcm81 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O 3 . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . |
$$ | . 6 . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X O 3 . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . 6 . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Topazg seems to be in for a surprise...

I wondered about topazg's suggested :w86:

(the capture), as well. However, it didn't occur to me that the corner was biggest. I had simply imagined this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . 2 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . X O 3 . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . C . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But I think that Prodigious is probably correct in that the marked spot is bigger (though I didn't think of it before).

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:17 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O 8 . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg