Life In 19x19

I think Cornel is 7d now.

LovroKlc wrote:I think Cornel is 7d now.

7d should not lose to me by over 20 in an even game just before round 1 of this year's EGC... Do you have more convincing data? :)

http://www.europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Pl ... y=10325249

Not quite 7d.

RobertJasiek wrote:

LovroKlc wrote:I think Cornel is 7d now.

7d should not lose to me by over 20 in an even game just before round 1 of this year's EGC... Do you have more convincing data?

Unless that was a tournament game it's worthless as a data point.

pwaldron wrote:

RobertJasiek wrote:

LovroKlc wrote:I think Cornel is 7d now.

7d should not lose to me by over 20 in an even game just before round 1 of this year's EGC... Do you have more convincing data?

Unless that was a tournament game it's worthless as a data point.

It is also probably worth mentioning that margin of victory is generally considered a poor metric to include for rank calculation.

oren wrote:http://www.europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Player_Card.php?&key=10325249

Not quite 7d.

Well, theoretically, the range 2650-2750 is 7d, so by that count he would currently qualify. But ratings fluctuate, of course. Burzo's rating has been around 2600 for a long time.

On the other hand, the European rating system is inflated, IMO, so 2600 is quite good. Anyone who can keep their rating consistently above 2600 qualifies as 7d in my book, even if they do not attain 2700. This does not (yet) apply to Burzo, as his rating was under 2600 earlier this year, but he is certainly on of the 6 dans closer to it.

Mef wrote:It is also probably worth mentioning that margin of victory is generally considered a poor metric to include for rank calculation.

Not for 7d+. None of the 7d I have played so far would allow me strategies for a huge margin for me. They were in control of their games or regained control. Not so Cornel. He got carried away in a ko fight, misread liberties, played bad threats, forgot to verify important connections elsewhere. A 7d does not do that in real world games, not even in a free game.

HermanHiddema wrote: Well, theoretically, the range 2650-2750 is 7d, so by that count he would currently qualify. But ratings fluctuate, of course. Burzo's rating has been around 2600 for a long time.

I misinterpreted the graph and thought 2700 was needed for 7d.

oren wrote:I misinterpreted the graph and thought 2700 was needed for 7d.

it depends. as i understand it, there are no universal rules how to derive rank from rating

for example in Czechia you get from 5d to 6d once you hit rating 2600 and keep 6d until you get to 2700 (and get promoted to 7d) or drop under 2500 (and get demoted to 5d again). this way ranks are overlapping and it is not possible to say which of two ranks you have based only on your current rating

in some other countries you are 6d just in the region 2550-2650, with 5d below and 7d upon

and i think for example in UK they add some adjustment (like 40 points or so?) to shift ranks along the rating scale and counter inflation

(correct me if i am wrong in any fact)

Most European countries use self-ranking and most of its players use it only in increasing direction.

Hi,

I don't think I am 7d yet but when I reach 2700 will be a different story

hey Robert, do you remember those games from kgs at 2,3 or 4 handicap, especially the ones you started with ponuki surrounding tengen and play manego and still lost twice in row, and lets dont forget ur 5d egf so losing 3 handicap vs 6d egf is kinda pathetic even for friendly games

Cornel B.

Of course, I remember the ponnuki manego games. You found really interesting counters! - Online rank has little to do with real word rank though. I am much weaker online than in the real world and the byoyomi online time settings are my weakest time conditions while they are the server games standard in practice. Maybe also therefore you tend to under-estimate me in our real-world games.

RobertJasiek wrote:Of course, I remember the ponnuki manego games. You found really interesting counters! - Online rank has little to do with real word rank though. I am much weaker online than in the real world and the byoyomi online time settings are my weakest time conditions while they are the server games standard in practice. Maybe also therefore you tend to under-estimate me in our real-world games.

Don't know you but what you said is really pathetic. I think it's ok to think and say that Cornel is not 7d. But to use the argument that u beat him once in a friendly game is lame. He is one of the most active players in Europe, he dedicated his life to learning and teaching, he is a good friend and he does not go to forums to say about some other players that they don't deserve their rank, without any argument, I might add. If he will get 7d EGF or not that remains to be seen but I am pretty sure your attitude is not one of a dan player or even a Go player.

George Ginguta, Romania

sameasyou wrote: what you said is really pathetic.

Sure. Those H4 games were years ago etc. I become pathetic when they are described as if they were recent.

But to use the argument that u beat him once in a friendly game is lame.

Older (tournament) games are years ago, so better I refer to recent information. Of course, one game result means little but it means more than LovroKlc's initial opinion without any data. Both were meant as teasers for others to provide more data. In the meantime, we have got some. Actually what I find more noteworthy is his wins in some games with 7d opponents and strong 6d. This clearly shows potential.

your attitude is not one of a dan player or even a Go player.

My attitude is that 7d should not be born out of rumours. Otherwise we will see a 7d inflation. Every dan player (or more generally go player) should be interested in sharing that attitude that only players really deserving it should become 7d.

one of the most active players in Europe, he dedicated his life to learning and teaching

These are not criteria for being or not being 7d.

EDIT: There is also something fundamentally wrong with your remarks about my attitude: In Europe, self-ranking is pretty popular. Self-ranking relies on two things: 1) Honest judgement on one's own statistics. 2) Mutual social control. It is like within a go club. Talks and discussions about each other's ranks greatly help with correct assessments and detect wrong rankings or premature promotion intentions. Rank discussions are not ethically doubtful but welcome!

Cornel did not say he is 7d.The data LovroKlc was relying on is the official EGF ratings.

EDIT: There is also something fundamentally wrong with your remarks about my attitude: In Europe, self-ranking is pretty popular. Self-ranking relies on two things: 1) Honest judgement on one's own statistics. 2) Mutual social control. It is like within a go club. Talks and discussions about each other's ranks greatly help with correct assessments and detect wrong rankings or premature promotion intentions. Rank discussions are not ethically doubtful but welcome!

You make it sound like Cornel said to anybody he is 7d EGF. Somebody else noticed that his EGF rating is in the area of 7d and u started to attack Cornel. You meant rank discussions or rank gossip about a game out of tens u were fortunate to win? If u want people to know how strong u are, which you are not anymore, play in tournaments and win some games. Don't put the sign of equality between a (one, 1) friendly game and the EGF rating that was obtained after more than 12 tournaments/year in the last 15 years. I see on your KGS info u are also teaching. Can u please share with me and your students what is to be learnt from your frustrated rant?

And I am pretty confident that he can take 3 out of 5 games with 3 hand stones from you. He is always online. I guess u can challenge him anytime if u dare though if I was him I wouldn't waste the time.