[go]$$Bcm57 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . W . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I do not like the attachment below. I have to play a afterwards, I don't think exchanging b-c accomplishes anything, since I still have to come back at a and he can play d afterwards.
$$Bcm1 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . c . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . b X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . d 1 W . O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . 2 a 3 . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . b . O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . 2 . W 1 . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . a X . . . Q . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Next will probably be the a-b exchange, since a is a very nice move for me. It feels like I'm quite safe here though. Note that, because of my marked move, I don't have to bother about that group anymore. I like being thick everywhere, that's why I played like that.
Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:56 pm
by Loons
$$Bcm59 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . W 1 . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm61 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . W . O X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
If I were to tenuki, white would get excellent shape here. I'm planning to extend again when he makes a bamboo joint, and aim to get significant territory in the centre-right as he settles.
I'm playing with fire, but my influence is too holey to try and make territory passively.
*Stage centre right, that is. Also, pushing again, causing him to jump seems a bit awful.
Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:13 am
by pancake
$$Bcm61 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . W . O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm65 (Future possibilities) $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O W O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . O B O X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . 0 . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 9 . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 7 O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 1 3 4 . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O 2 5 X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Maybe 67 directly? 67 at 70?
Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:04 pm
by Loons
Updating my count, white still appears to have just over 50 points (and komi) while I have about 50 points, maybe just under. I still have potential (re; my last diagram kind of thing. On reflection I don't really need a big centre left.
Oh, and by way of explaining my last move; it reduces white eyeshape a tiny bit in sente, albeit in exchange for a liberty. If I waited, and white played something like J11, he would answer differently.
Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:30 am
by pancake
$$Bcm63 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O W O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . O X O X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm65 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . x . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . o X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . x , . . . o . O W O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . o . O X O X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x . . x . | $$ | . X . O . O . x . B . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . x O . . . . O B . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O x . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
The 'o's are my idle speculation on where he's going to play for shape. The 'x's are an exhaustive list of non-local moves I'd like to get. How can I use his new-born dragon to get them?
Tenuki at 63 may have been better: though 65 works well with my marked stones I think.
A less active move for 57 may have been better; I was feeling quite demoralised at that point (as you may have noticed) and been needlessly active.
Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:48 pm
by pancake
I found out this way it's easier to make a lot of comments. I hope I didn't make to many mistakes in this sgf, it's kinda late for this stuff.
[go]$$Bcm67 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . W . O X O X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 1 X X X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Same move as 63, stopping white playing here himself; also these black stones now have more or less infinite liberties. I'm not entirely sure what white's going to choose to make shape; after he does, I will consider whether it's possible to menace the white group to take a & b; otherwise, I feel like c is probably biggest.
$$Bcm67 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . b . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . a , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . W . O X O X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 1 X X X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
AB[cn][bp][jp][qp][iq][pq][nr][fb][ob][fc][nc][pc][gd][jd][od] [pd][he][pe][qe][rf][dg][oh][di][ji][mi][qi][mj][ck][kk][mk] [kl][ll][pm]AW[dc][qn][dp][fp][np][ci][hq][eb][pb][qb][hr][hc] [qc][dd][qd][re][cf][qf][cg][rg][lh][cq][li][jj][kj][lj][jk] [lk][qk][pl][qm][on]CR[kj]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/] PL[B]MULTIGOGM[1];B[jl]LB[ii:A][hk:B][il:C]C[I thought about several things here. A and B seem to me the only options. I also looked at C for a while to see if there was anything to gain after the cut, but I don't think there is.] MN[65] (;W[ii]LB[hl:A][hj:B]C[I think after this, he will enclose me (A) or play at the vital point for eyeshape (B).]
(;B[hl];W[hk] (;B[gk];W[gj] (;B[ik];W[hj];B[fk];W[gg]C[Something like this should make living easy.] ) (;B[fk];W[gh]C[I don't see this dying.])) (;B[gl]C[I think this is the best option, hane gives me eyeshape.] ;W[jh]LB[hh:A][ig:B][kg:C][hj:D][gg:E]C[I don't dare say for sure if this should live or not. I think it should, though. Shape moves like A, B, C, D have to be considered. Also, around E I can get some sente moves.] )) (;B[hj];W[ik];B[hm];W[hk];B[gj];W[gk]C[I don't know, but this doesn't look good for black, does it?]
(;B[fj];W[gm]) (;B[fm];W[fj];B[hh];W[fl];B[em];W[dj];B[ei];W[dk]C[Should be something here.] ))) (;W[hk]C[This one is the most promising I think, so I will play like this.]
(;B[hm];W[fk];B[fm];W[ii]C[He has to run with his stone in order for me to not make 2 eyes.] ;B[jh];W[ih];B[jg];W[fi]C[Looks like I can live here.]) (;B[hl];W[gl] (;B[hm];W[gj]C[This looks like nonsense for black]) (;B[gm];W[fk];B[fm];W[ii];B[jh];W[ih];B[jg];W[fi]C[This might also be a possiblity for him, eventhough there's annoying aji left if I live.] ))))
Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:22 am
by pancake
I couldn't get my SGF to work last time, so I'll just attach it so people can download the file.
$$Bcm67 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . W . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm67 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . W . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:39 pm
by Loons
I'm a little fraught with indecision. If I had five more points (as well as sente) I would very likely just play passively.
This seems a valuable move anyway. White's choice aims at a driving-esque play against d11 (while making some shape). I expect white to respond again locally showing me how his group will live, which can again advise my next play.
I did consider leading with the push at J9 for fear that whatever white's living move is will take it away, but I felt in this case it would be overzealous (if I seem preoccupied with this sort of move, it's because I was watching some pro games a while ago and it really struck me how they chip away at the eyespace of groups that will have to live while it's sente, and I'm trying to figure that out).
$$Bcm69 black: 1 white: 0 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . W . . X . O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . 1 , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+