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#187 lovelove vs Marcus

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=7270

Page 9 of 10

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:07 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . X . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . X X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O 4 . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe that's the mistake I was looking for? Certainly, I feel a bit more hopeful now! Need to read some more. :)

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:10 pm
by lovelove
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . X . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . X X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 5 . O X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Why is there no face for "headache"?? :scratch:

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:20 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . X . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . X X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O . O X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 6 X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yes, a headache face would definitely fit in some of the Malkovich games. So much miai, so many liberties ... *read, read, read*

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:33 pm
by lovelove
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Black: 2 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . X . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . X X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O . O X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O 7 . O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:41 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . X . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . X X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O . O X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O 8 O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not actually sure what lovelove's plan is here. We're only a handful of moves from the end of this fight (10-14, I think), and there are many fewer variations left to consider.

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:46 pm
by lovelove
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . X . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . X X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O . O X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | 9 O O O X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:48 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . X . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . X X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 0 O O O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O . O X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | O O O O X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


SHOW ME YOUR EYES! :mrgreen:

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:52 pm
by lovelove
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm111 Black: 4 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . X . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . X X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 O O O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | 1 O X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O . O X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | O O O O X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:57 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm111 Black: 4 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . X . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | 4 X X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | C X X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O . O X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | O O O O X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I win this by 1 liberty. At least, that's what I read.

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:59 pm
by lovelove
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm111 Black: 4 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | 5 X . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . X . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | X X X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O . O X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | O O O O X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:02 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm115 Black: 4 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | 1 X 7 O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | 3 X 5 X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | X X X X X W W X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | 2 X X W W W X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X W W W 6 X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 W W X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | W W X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | W 8 W X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | W W W W X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can you see a different path?

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:06 pm
by lovelove
Marcus wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm115 Black: 4 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | 1 X 7 O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | 3 X 5 X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X O O O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | X X X X X W W X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | 2 X X W W W X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X W W W 6 X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 W W X . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | W W X X X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | W 8 W X . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | W W W W X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can you see a different path?

Okay thanks, I resign.

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:11 pm
by Marcus
Thank you very much for the game. You definitely pushed my reading far beyond where I normally take it.

I need to go back and read the hidden comments. There are definitely a few places where I felt I had no idea, strategically, where I should be playing on the board.

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:41 pm
by Marcus
I have a question about the following position, for any observers that might still be reading:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Lovelove calls R14 a mistake. Why? Also, where should I have played, if not at R14? The hane underneath? A direct cut? EdLee suggests maybe R13 ... anyone care to discuss?

Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:41 pm
by Magicwand
Marcus wrote:I have a question about the following position, for any observers that might still be reading:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Lovelove calls R14 a mistake. Why? Also, where should I have played, if not at R14? The hane underneath? A direct cut? EdLee suggests maybe R13 ... anyone care to discuss?

what you played is correct.
but do you know why it is correct?
It will take many many diag and time to show you all variations..
I will leave them for your study.
All times are UTC-07:00
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