Life in 19x19. Go, Weiqi, Baduk... Thats the life.
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I'd challenge that. Even this game I think is still wide open and god knows how many mistakes I did already compared to a high-dan^^. When you play light, you are less predictable and more flexible. Of course at some point you gotta commit....Joaz Banbeck wrote:You can't play lightly everyplace.
What we took advantage of, though, was not tactical mistakes, but rather that you allowed us to keep building thickness and territory.Pippen wrote:I'd challenge that. Even this game I think is still wide open and god knows how many mistakes I did already compared to a high-dan^^. When you play light, you are less predictable and more flexible. Of course at some point you gotta commit....Joaz Banbeck wrote:You can't play lightly everyplace.
I've noticed on KGS that players make heavy groups and call them thick. All of this stuff is high level for sure. One relatively test for thick vs. heavy is that thick stones are strong whereas heavy stones are usually vulnerable and difficult to sacrifice. Of course a group that is thick at one time in the game could become heavy later. Another dichotomy that has some relevance here is fast vs. slow. Kobayashi Koichi used to be criticised occasionally for making slow moves which he said he considered thick. Fast development is often thin. Takemiya Masaki is well-known for his moyo-oriented play. Less well-known is that he loves thickness and considers the success of his moyos as based on thickness.Bill Spight wrote:We have thick and thin, heavy and light. Thick and light are good, heavy and thin are bad. Nearly everybody gets the metaphors, few players understand the concepts. Most dan players can fairly reliably tell the difference between heavy and thick, between thin and light, but we all get it wrong at times. If it were easy to explain these terms verbally, virtually every SDK could get it right.
Most amateur play, IMO, is heavy. And often it is heavy without trying to be thick, which is a real shame. I think that in part it is a question of attitude. To consistently play lightly requires a flexible attitude. It is possible to make thick plays and to treat those thick stones lightly.
Oxymorons are the best kind of morons.Loons wrote:
Saying amateurs get the metaphors but don't get the concept is an oxymoron.
Technique is important, but there is lack of understanding, as well.I think amateurs are trying to play thick and light but lack the technique, ie reading to do so at a high level.
You are referring to the butsukari at Q-06? I don't think that the White stone became heavy at that point. In my view it became part of a thin group with the subsequent hane, and then heavy with the connection forming a three stone group.Further, skillful attack involves making your opponent heavy; it's a two player affair. When Shapenaji struck white's cap it was revealed to be heavy, though it looked like a common light technique.
I was just wrong, illustrating your point.Bill Spight wrote:You are referring to the butsukari at Q-06? I don't think that the White stone became heavy at that point. In my view it became part of a thin group with the subsequent hane, and then heavy with the connection forming a three stone group.
It is not.Loons wrote:Saying amateurs get the metaphors but don't get the concept is an oxymoron.
As Bill already mentioned, it's not just technique or reading: it's everything.Loons wrote:I think amateurs are trying to play thick and light but lack the technique, ie reading to do so at a high level.
Personally, I don't really like that strategy. Black is rich in points and has sente to start ensuring white doesn't profit too much from his thickness.drmwc wrote:I think 18 was a mistake, and the start of things becoming heavy. White played the stone on the side with a plan of abandoning it if necessary - 18 tries to hold onto it but leave many cuts behind.
How about this as an alternative?
I'm not sure black should playdrmwc wrote:I think 18 was a mistake, and the start of things becoming heavy. White played the stone on the side with a plan of abandoning it if necessary - 18 tries to hold onto it but leave many cuts behind.
How about this as an alternative?
If black insists on capturing the lone stone, White gives up a lot of points, but gets thickness and quite a nice moyo. I suspect it's playable for white. It certainly feels m ore in keeping with the spirit of this fuseki.
to 
right away.Looks a long way from working at the moment, I can't see how white can make a move that prevent's "a" from working without giving black the opportunity to fix. The stability of that group is entirely local.drmwc wrote: For example, white is developing aji against the corner. This invasion looks pretty plausible. It doesn't quite work yet, but is not too far from becoming a threat.
EDIT: 25 seems awfully submissive... why not 25 at 26? I don't see a strong w response?
White can still go for the mega-moyo:
This is a bit wasteful, but white gets sente and truly wonderful thickness.
It may be worth noting that black passed forshapenaji wrote:Looks a long way from working at the moment, I can't see how white can make a move that prevent's "a" from working without giving black the opportunity to fix. The stability of that group is entirely local.drmwc wrote: For example, white is developing aji against the corner. This invasion looks pretty plausible. It doesn't quite work yet, but is not too far from becoming a threat.
EDIT: 25 seems awfully submissive... why not 25 at 26? I don't see a strong w response?
White can still go for the mega-moyo:
This is a bit wasteful, but white gets sente and truly wonderful thickness.
in each of these diagrams as well.