What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by bayu »

Fedya wrote:Actually, I asked the question because I knew that if I simply asked how to improve my reading, everybody would answer "do tsumego". :) I was wondering if people had other ideas.



-Fooling around on goquest with 9x9-go. Helped to speed up my reading.

-Tesuji problems as in the 501-book or Davies.
If something sank it might be a treasure. And 2kyu advice is not necessarily Dan repertoire..
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by sparky314 »

I'm not sure there is a shortcut to reading strength. You can practice your reading in games, or via problems.

I like to compare doing problems to doing pushups (or running laps, or punching a bag, etc). It's building a fundamental strength so that you can apply it easier and quicker. Even though it may still require additional strength reserves, you're already half way there because you've trained for it.

If you don't have much time for problems, then I'd recommend doing easier problems. You can do more in a shorter period of time, and what you're going for is quantity. Anything you can read within 10-30s.
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by Fedya »

Another interesting reading exercise. I don't know how difficult the rest of you will find it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by sparky314 »

I've seen the A14 move before, but not in combination with the shortage of liberties required to make it work, as in here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | 3 . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by Fedya »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 4 5 O X . . . . .
$$ | 3 6 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

I had difficulty seeing with none of the stones on the board that :w6: is a self-atari. I saw right away that A14 is the move that connect the three stones at A6 to the one at B13, but of course if Black plays there first White would capture them:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 2 3 O X . . . . .
$$ | 1 4 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by sparky314 »

And black can't play like this. Do you see why?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by DrStraw »

sparky314 wrote:
And black can't play like this. Do you see why?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


That was actually the first move I looked at. Seems like an obvious first move. But I realized it did not work. I was about to post your solution when I saw you already did. But, the point of saying that is to point out, to Fedya and others, if you come close but don't quite make it then try to see if there are other, similar, sequences, or a slight change in the order which does work.

And always look for damezumari in a close fight.
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by Bill Spight »

I doubt if I would have come close to solving this problem when I was 5 kyu. :shock:

Fedya wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 4 5 O X . . . . .
$$ | 3 6 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

I had difficulty seeing with none of the stones on the board that :w6: is a self-atari.


This problem violates Wilcox's five alive heuristic, as White starts out with 5 dame. ;)

I saw right away that A14 is the move that connect the three stones at A6 to the one at B13, but of course if Black plays there first White would capture them:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 2 3 O X . . . . .
$$ | 1 4 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Note that the :w2: - :b3: exchange takes away one dame from each side, and that :w4: does, too. That leaves White with only 3 dame.

So if Black can take away 2 dame on the top edge with sente before playing at 1, the White play at 4 will be self atari. :)
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Post by EdLee »

Hi Bill,
What's Bruce's 5 alive idea ?
Any simple example cases where it applies ? Thanks. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | X O X X X X X . .
$$ | . O O O O O X . .
$$ | . O X X . . X . .
$$ | . O O X . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]
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Re:

Post by Bill Spight »

EdLee wrote:Hi Bill,
What's Bruce's 5 alive idea ?
Any simple example cases where it applies ? Thanks. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | X O X X X X X . .
$$ | . O O O O O X . .
$$ | . O X X . . X . .
$$ | . O O X . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]


I don't think there's any need to hide this. I have not read Wilcox's contact plays material, and maybe I do not really understand what he means by five alive -- or even if that is how he puts it. My guess is that in fights a string that has 5 dame is safe, as a rule. I have utilized it the other way, that a string having fewer than 5 dame may well be in danger.
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Post by EdLee »

Hi Bill,

Thanks. I actually bought his Contact fights over a decade ago.
He mentioned 4 libs, 5 libs, and other cases, if I remember correctly.
I don't recall the phrasing 5 alive in it; maybe he used it elsewhere.
And it's not really for life-and-death per se...it's for contact fights.
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Re:

Post by Bill Spight »

EdLee wrote:Hi Bill,

Thanks. I actually bought his Contact fights over a decade ago.
He mentioned 4 libs, 5 libs, and other cases, if I remember correctly.
I don't recall the phrasing 5 alive in it; maybe he used it elsewhere.
And it's not really for life-and-death per se...it's for contact fights.


Thanks, Ed. I had a suspicion that the phrase, five alive, was someone else's formulation of Wilcox's original idea. And, no, it is not for life and death per se.

I still thought that it applied in this case, because without damezumari White can capture the three Black stones.
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by DrStraw »

"Five alive" is a catchphrase from the movie Short Circuit. :lol:
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by Fedya »

I posted that problem in part because I found the solution (the app declared you correct after :b5:) with White being unable to play :w6: delightfully surprising. The other reason is that it's yet another example of one of the big problems I have with my reading, which is that I find it difficult to see upcoming ataris until most of the stones are actually on the board. That's clearly a recurring theme.
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Post by Bill Spight »

Fedya wrote:I find it difficult to see upcoming ataris until most of the stones are actually on the board. That's clearly a recurring theme.


Join the club! :D

That's why I said, a while back, Count the dame.

White starts with 5 dame. You saw the sequence on the left where the throw-in costs 1 dame and the atari of the Black stones costs another. That leaves 3 dame. If you can remove 2 dame from the top with sente, that leaves White only 1 dame with Black to play. Bingo! :cool:

It is all very fine to say, well I should be able to visualize the board after the sequence and see the self atari, but, as Krogius pointed out about the visualized image (in The psychology of chess), it is not as clear as what you actually see. Counting and keeping track of the number of dame is an aid not to be sneezed at.
Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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