Fedya wrote:Actually, I asked the question because I knew that if I simply asked how to improve my reading, everybody would answer "do tsumego". I was wondering if people had other ideas.
-Fooling around on goquest with 9x9-go. Helped to speed up my reading.
-Tesuji problems as in the 501-book or Davies.
Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:31 pm
by sparky314
I'm not sure there is a shortcut to reading strength. You can practice your reading in games, or via problems.
I like to compare doing problems to doing pushups (or running laps, or punching a bag, etc). It's building a fundamental strength so that you can apply it easier and quicker. Even though it may still require additional strength reserves, you're already half way there because you've trained for it.
If you don't have much time for problems, then I'd recommend doing easier problems. You can do more in a shorter period of time, and what you're going for is quantity. Anything you can read within 10-30s.
Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:27 pm
by Fedya
Another interesting reading exercise. I don't know how difficult the rest of you will find it.
$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:51 pm
by sparky314
I've seen the A14 move before, but not in combination with the shortage of liberties required to make it work, as in here.
$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | 3 . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | 3 . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:07 pm
by Fedya
$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 4 5 O X . . . . .
$$ | 3 6 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 4 5 O X . . . . .
$$ | 3 6 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
I had difficulty seeing with none of the stones on the board that is a self-atari. I saw right away that A14 is the move that connect the three stones at A6 to the one at B13, but of course if Black plays there first White would capture them:
$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 2 3 O X . . . . .
$$ | 1 4 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 2 3 O X . . . . .
$$ | 1 4 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:29 pm
by sparky314
And black can't play like this. Do you see why?
$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:38 pm
by DrStraw
sparky314 wrote:
And black can't play like this. Do you see why?
$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
That was actually the first move I looked at. Seems like an obvious first move. But I realized it did not work. I was about to post your solution when I saw you already did. But, the point of saying that is to point out, to Fedya and others, if you come close but don't quite make it then try to see if there are other, similar, sequences, or a slight change in the order which does work.
And always look for damezumari in a close fight.
Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:10 pm
by Bill Spight
I doubt if I would have come close to solving this problem when I was 5 kyu.
Fedya wrote:
$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 4 5 O X . . . . .
$$ | 3 6 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 4 5 O X . . . . .
$$ | 3 6 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
I had difficulty seeing with none of the stones on the board that is a self-atari.
This problem violates Wilcox's five alive heuristic, as White starts out with 5 dame.
I saw right away that A14 is the move that connect the three stones at A6 to the one at B13, but of course if Black plays there first White would capture them:
$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 2 3 O X . . . . .
$$ | 1 4 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bc Black to move
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . .
$$ | O X O X . X . . .
$$ | X X O X . . . . .
$$ | 2 3 O X . . . . .
$$ | 1 4 O X . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Note that the - exchange takes away one dame from each side, and that does, too. That leaves White with only 3 dame.
So if Black can take away 2 dame on the top edge with sente before playing at 1, the White play at 4 will be self atari.
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:34 pm
by EdLee
Hi Bill,
What's Bruce's 5 alive idea ?
Any simple example cases where it applies ? Thanks.
$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | X O X X X X X . .
$$ | . O O O O O X . .
$$ | . O X X . . X . .
$$ | . O O X . . . . .
$$ -------------------
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | X O X X X X X . .
$$ | . O O O O O X . .
$$ | . O X X . . X . .
$$ | . O O X . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]
Re:
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:24 pm
by Bill Spight
EdLee wrote:Hi Bill,
What's Bruce's 5 alive idea ?
Any simple example cases where it applies ? Thanks.
$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | X O X X X X X . .
$$ | . O O O O O X . .
$$ | . O X X . . X . .
$$ | . O O X . . . . .
$$ -------------------
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | X O X X X X X . .
$$ | . O O O O O X . .
$$ | . O X X . . X . .
$$ | . O O X . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]
I don't think there's any need to hide this. I have not read Wilcox's contact plays material, and maybe I do not really understand what he means by five alive -- or even if that is how he puts it. My guess is that in fights a string that has 5 dame is safe, as a rule. I have utilized it the other way, that a string having fewer than 5 dame may well be in danger.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:29 am
by EdLee
Hi Bill,
Thanks. I actually bought his Contact fights over a decade ago.
He mentioned 4 libs, 5 libs, and other cases, if I remember correctly.
I don't recall the phrasing 5 alive in it; maybe he used it elsewhere.
And it's not really for life-and-death per se...it's for contact fights.
image.jpg (42.07 KiB) Viewed 11894 times
Re:
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:42 am
by Bill Spight
EdLee wrote:Hi Bill,
Thanks. I actually bought his Contact fights over a decade ago.
He mentioned 4 libs, 5 libs, and other cases, if I remember correctly.
I don't recall the phrasing 5 alive in it; maybe he used it elsewhere.
And it's not really for life-and-death per se...it's for contact fights.
Thanks, Ed. I had a suspicion that the phrase, five alive, was someone else's formulation of Wilcox's original idea. And, no, it is not for life and death per se.
I still thought that it applied in this case, because without damezumari White can capture the three Black stones.
Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:43 am
by DrStraw
"Five alive" is a catchphrase from the movie Short Circuit.
Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:09 pm
by Fedya
I posted that problem in part because I found the solution (the app declared you correct after ) with White being unable to play delightfully surprising. The other reason is that it's yet another example of one of the big problems I have with my reading, which is that I find it difficult to see upcoming ataris until most of the stones are actually on the board. That's clearly a recurring theme.
Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:48 pm
by Bill Spight
Fedya wrote:I find it difficult to see upcoming ataris until most of the stones are actually on the board. That's clearly a recurring theme.
Join the club!
That's why I said, a while back, Count the dame.
White starts with 5 dame. You saw the sequence on the left where the throw-in costs 1 dame and the atari of the Black stones costs another. That leaves 3 dame. If you can remove 2 dame from the top with sente, that leaves White only 1 dame with Black to play. Bingo!
It is all very fine to say, well I should be able to visualize the board after the sequence and see the self atari, but, as Krogius pointed out about the visualized image (in The psychology of chess), it is not as clear as what you actually see. Counting and keeping track of the number of dame is an aid not to be sneezed at.
I was wondering if people had other ideas.
) with White being unable to play 
delightfully surprising. The other reason is that it's yet another example of one of the big problems I have with my reading, which is that I find it difficult to see upcoming ataris until most of the stones are actually on the board. That's clearly a recurring theme.
- 
exchange takes away one dame from each side, and that 
does, too. That leaves White with only 3 dame.