Page 10 of 12

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:58 am
by oren
He's just clarifying the default "private" operation there as opposed to some that are meant to be read by certain "friend" people.

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:02 am
by Solomon
wms wrote:Araban - isn't is *always* for observers only when people comment hidden? (Unless it specifically says it's for a player).

I know I haven't been seeing any of them...

Yeah, guess the comment was a bit redundant; but I guess the re-iteration can't hurt :). Hope it doesn't tempt you to look, cause if you do...
Image

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:54 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O W O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c i will have to play a and b before i go further.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O W O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . b X a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 3:08 pm
by Magicwand
okok...i actually try to read this problem and solve.
it is not easy. the problem is bigger than it seems.

short answer : ko.
but way more complicated because it is intertwined with top black group.

i will play as below and leave the ko aji alone for a while.
depends on what he plays i will decide if i am going to activate the ko aji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O W O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O 1 . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


edited:
disregard above comments
i must been dreaming about somethingelse.
i will go home and try to read them again.

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:00 pm
by Magicwand
i looked at this for 10 min at home now.
i still dont know who is winning this local fight.
at least i have pleaty of time to study :)
and also i am ahead whatever outcome it maybe.

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:27 pm
by wms
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . B . O O O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is getting really, really, bad. I thought maybe B13 would work, but now that I look, if MW answers at B11 then I'm done. This probably won't work either.

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:28 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . W , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i really dont know what the right answer is.

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:33 am
by Magicwand
i think he is in big trouble now.
it all started with one little mistake marked black stone.
if he answered at "a" there is nothing to worry about (may be some endgame aji and ko threats).
i didnt expect thismuch success there so all i expected was sente exchange of b and c.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X B . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X a X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . c X b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i have one (maybe two?) weak group that is attacking weak black group
there is no way he can save every group on the board because he is weak everywhere.
even the group on top right doesnt have 100%life (see below). which means the bottom group (or top left group) has to die.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X 9 X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . 6 X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X 7 5 X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O 2 1 O . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O X O X X O X 8 X 4 X O . . |
$$ | . . W , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . . . O . 3 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:50 am
by wms
H'mmm, I had a move all ready, but now I see another option that I want to look into. Will have to wait until tonight when I can really think about it.

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:53 pm
by wms
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . B . O . X O O . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I keep going back and forth. Is there a way out? We'll see. I can't read that far. But there is some complex stuff in here.

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:26 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . W O , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . X . O . X O O . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

every move he makes it gets easier to capture him.

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:29 am
by wms
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | B O O , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . X . O . X O O . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:58 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | X O O , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . X . O . X O O . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . W . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:09 am
by wms
Gotta think again - A9 or A8? Or maybe there is something I'm overlooking. So it will have to wait until tonight.

Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:36 pm
by wms
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X X O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | X O O , . X X O X O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | B X . O . X O O . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I read out that I can make it. But it is so extremely tricky. Very likely that I'm missing something. We'll see.

EDIT: Oh, I think I see w's move that kills me. Sigh.