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Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:36 am
by SinK
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:11 am
by lesenv
I would go with Sinks proposition (a), but for the sake of choice my nomination is:
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0Because if the white upper-left group is out of danger, then our upper-left group is in danger. And even if we can save it by running towards tengen the profit white makes on top would be unacceptable.
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:24 pm
by Jordus
BIC
lets make it fun...
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:42 am
by lesenv
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:25 pm
by Jordus
@lesenv
I dont imagine white letting us have yet another corner... so they would probably play somthing along these lines.... builds a wall for us that works with the rest of our stones, and keeps white small in the corner... a follow up for black around (a) would make black very strong.. the center stone works well with (a) too..
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:02 pm
by Redundant
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:42 pm
by Jordus
@redundant
which hane?
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0or
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0if white choses to protect the cutting point at a we can use that as an advantage to play b and create a wall of our own...
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:30 am
by robinz
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:17 pm
by Redundant
Jordus wrote: @redundant
which hane?
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0or
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0if white choses to protect the cutting point at a we can use that as an advantage to play b and create a wall of our own...
@Jordus
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:07 am
by lesenv
@redundant, BIC
I'm really bad at invasions. i never know where to play. so answering your question is difficult for me. where would white invade?
Let me try:
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0yeah, something like this.
I would be really glad if i was wrong
so you could point out where i am wrong and how to do it better. if i'm right, well, that's ok, too
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:11 am
by Jordus
@redundant
I think we will be fine with a crosscut if they hane.. but we could always extend...
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0or
can extend with (a) also
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:37 am
by Redundant
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
This is a little thin, but we should be able to deal with an invasion due to the tengen stone.
D11 is a good idea, but is also aji keshi, as we may later decide we want to play C11 instead. However, we should remember that we can activate that aji before dealing with that area (much later, as it is not interesting right now).
Q16 is locally not very good. I wanted you guys to look at something like this. We're cut, and white is going to get a huge corner while we deal with our cutting stones.
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0I didn't put much reading into the counterhane after white R16, but my instincts say it doesn't end well.
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:11 am
by Mnemonic
I have to say I'm positively surprised about the quality of this game. This doesn't look like any ddk opening I've ever seen, and even though I'm already well into sdk i'd say you would be hard pressed to find a game of similar quality in my records. Every time I'm finally comfortable with the position you find a new twist
Props to everyone involved
I wanted to play this so badly:
$$Bcm15 Aiming at
with a,b miai
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . C . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . 1 . . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Aiming at They played a wider extension which means more aji later, but my candidate doesn't work anymore and I'm not sure when/how to try something at the top.
The three basic choices we have:
1) Pressure the top 3 stones immediately. Those 4 spaces are extremely wide and we should definitely consider jumping in right now.
2) Protect our upper right corner. It is probably honte but looks awfully slow, especially because we probably want to protect at the 33.
3) tenuki and approach one of the corners on the lower side. Even this isn't as simple as it seems because we have at least 2-3 valid approaches and I think we could consider a far approach as well.
Need to read!
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:41 am
by robinz
WIC:
I don't like approaching one of the bottom corners now. Firstly, I don't think they're as big as the upper right (the rule of thumb is that the second move in an asymmetric corner is much bigger than that in a symmetric one), and secondly, there are two of them so they're roughly miai anyway. (OK, we might have been able to get both approaches in if black chooses something nice and passive like a 6-4 or 6-3 extension, but given the way black has played so far I can't believe they'd do that - they'd either pincer or tenuki
)
My first instinct then is to play the upper right. (Although even then there's the question of where...) You're right that their extension looks wider than it "ought to be", but jumping into such an extension right away has always looked like greedy go to me - can't we take big points elsewhere and let them worry about the aji later? (Invading now would also give them a weak group to attack, which is basically what their setup is designed to do.) But you're right that it does need reading - not that I'm at all good with reading when the sequence isn't virtually forced (which this won't be anything like). Also that we might be able to play some wide extension of our own on top that pressures their group and forces a defensive move. So no hint of a nomination from me yet, either, just a few thoughts for now
Re: Teamovich 2
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:09 am
by Mnemonic
WIC:
Currently looking at:
$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm15 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0Current schedule: Read the upper left and decide if we can profit from attacking the group now. If not tenuki. Read the upper right and decide if white get's an awesome position if we tenuki. If not, Approach at e or f.
so you could point out where i am wrong and how to do it better. if i'm right, well, that's ok, too 
Props to everyone involved 
with a,b miai