$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O 9 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O 9 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I need to read whether I can actually play the double hane or not. I think cutting immediately forces him to allow me the double hane else he enters a rather unpleasant ko, but I need to read that in more detail too. Getting nearer the point I'm going to count
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:49 am
by ez4u
$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , 0 . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O 9 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , 0 . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O 9 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:19 am
by topazg
$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O 1 . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O 1 . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I've read enough to know it's complicated, but I think it's just about playable. He can't cut and save his stone, and although he can run with it, I think that helps more than me. More reading for required.
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:37 am
by ez4u
$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X 2 . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X 3 . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X 2 . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X 3 . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If that is OK...
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:57 am
by perceval
@topazg
topazg wrote:Having just said all this, Dave is definitely going to get sente after he finishes poking around in the corner, and how he uses it will have a really big impact on what's left of the board. I haven't even bothered really counting in detail yet, as there's just too much up in the air still. However, I do at least feel like the board is close enough to be an interesting game for both sides.
topazg wrote:Ok, so standard is something like this: .
My spider senses give me 15-20% chance of winning the game right now, so I'm not optimistic, but I haven't counted in enough detail to be more sure yet.
Your estimation of the game seemed to have drooped since W invasion of your 3 space extension, yet it doesnt seems like W really surprised your. I wonder what happened ? did you envisage teh same situation, but now evaluate it differently ? or did W improves substantially on your expected reading ? was there a particular unexpected move ?
... I hope it's still interesting to those observing
Yes very much you an ez4u give very interesting commentaries
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:14 am
by Chew Terr
perceval wrote:@topazg
topazg wrote:Having just said all this, Dave is definitely going to get sente after he finishes poking around in the corner, and how he uses it will have a really big impact on what's left of the board. I haven't even bothered really counting in detail yet, as there's just too much up in the air still. However, I do at least feel like the board is close enough to be an interesting game for both sides.
topazg wrote:Ok, so standard is something like this: .
My spider senses give me 15-20% chance of winning the game right now, so I'm not optimistic, but I haven't counted in enough detail to be more sure yet.
Your estimation of the game seemed to have drooped since W invasion of your 3 space extension, yet it doesnt seems like W really surprised your. I wonder what happened ? did you envisage teh same situation, but now evaluate it differently ? or did W improves substantially on your expected reading ? was there a particular unexpected move ?
... I hope it's still interesting to those observing
Yes very much you an ez4u give very interesting commentaries
I have this big of swing all the time, when I lose sente. If I take myself too seriously about it, I have to kick myself and get myself to just find the best move and play it.
Thanks to both players. This game is a blast to watch!
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:38 am
by topazg
$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X 5 . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X 5 . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Sure, I was kind of expecting that
I have a plan, trust me I'll post what it is in a few moves
@perceval
Actually, no, my assessment hasn't really changed, even though my wording suggested it. I still think the game is close to even, but a pro expects to catch a third of his handicap against an amateur dan up in the endgame alone, and if the game is in the balance now, I'm probably screwed against someone this much stronger than me. My endgame isn't all that strong anyway I think.
Still, there's plenty left, and my current plan is to prevent White making any points in the middle. If I can achieve that, I'll count, and see how far ahead I am on the board. If I've got 15 points more territory than White when the dust settles, I'll give my winning odds 50%, but I suspect it will be between 0 and 5 more points, and the remainder of the midgame potential I think favours White more than Black regarding picking up a few more points - that'll bring it level at best going into yose, hence the 15-20%.
We'll just have to see
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:26 pm
by ez4u
$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As I see it, we are now in the transition from the middle game to yose. I hoped to post quite a bit of analysis of this position, but I have been too busy at work today (currently on the lunch hour ). I am generally poor at spotting the transition when I am playing over the board. As a result, I am often chasing middle-game ideas about fighting when in fact the fights are over or have become so localized as to be of little worth. This can very quickly lead to a big negative swing in points if your opponent is more on the ball and turns to taking profits ahead of you.
There are plenty of big points left on the board. However, I think it is worthwhile for me to enclose the bottom left corner. Topazg did not enter there and instead built up great thickness in the center. I think I need the lower left in order to compete on territory. There is more to it than that however.
$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X B . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X W c . . . . . . d . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . a . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . e . . . . . b X 1 O X O . . | $$ | . . 3 O . . . . O , X . O X 2 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X B . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X W c . . . . . . d . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . a . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . e . . . . . b X 1 O X O . . | $$ | . . 3 O . . . . O , X . O X 2 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I expect Black to answer , probably with because it reduces the liberties of my cutting stones above and because it cedes the fewest points here. However, the exchange gives me either "a" or "b" as future plays depending on how things develop. I then expect to play and take the corner. In this situation, I also threaten to put the marked White stone in motion with "c" or possibly the diagonal play one point lower. Because of the previous play, Black has a lot of "strength" facing the center on the left but does not yet have good eye space, much less two distinct eyes. Note that if Black had played (the marked stone) at "c", this possibility would not exist.
Sadly I do not get to make two moves in a row! So how will topazg use his sente? The other substantial issue on the board is White's center stones. Will Black be able to successfully threaten these stones, perhaps starting with the peep at "d", in order to build up the center and naturally prevent me from putting the marked stone in motion? Will Black try to strengthen the center first with some forcing move around "e"? Will Black pull something completely different out of the bag? Stay tuned!
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:55 am
by topazg
I've messed up somewhere here. I don't know how I missed that move, my kosumi I alluded to earlier was bigger than I thought.
My first thought is this atari, but it's horrible:
$$Bcm97 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X W O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X 0 O X 2 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . 1 3 4 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 5 6 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm97 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X W O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X 0 O X 2 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . 1 3 4 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 5 6 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If I don't, he saves his stone, and I suffer a large local loss. I need to really think about this.
Further thoughts:
I'm now debating between these two:
$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . W X b X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . a . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . W X b X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . a . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It depends on whether I need the most help with the circled stone, or the pair.
I've lost a good 5-10 points already compared to what I'd previously envisaged, and that makes me a bit sad
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:09 am
by topazg
$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . 7 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . 7 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Not a very happy bunny right now. I can counter-atari if he plays an atari, and stay nicely connected with good shape, but my goodness is it painful to let this happen. I need to get my mojo flow back!
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:31 am
by ez4u
$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . | $$ | . . 8 O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . | $$ | . . 8 O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The bottom right is full of interesting issues, but I will stick with the plan and wait to see how Black will play next.
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:59 am
by topazg
$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . 9 . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . 9 . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Stretching for central access whilst killing that single stone. Check out the World's Weirdest Shape in the process. I've just played out a few endgame sequences and done some counting, and I think, with komi, I'm 10-15 points behind. Sadly, that's almost resignable
Let's play another 20 moves and see if we're closer to confirming it
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:19 pm
by Solomon
If his estimate is correct, why not try something more bold?
$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O B . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . b . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . 9 a O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O B . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . b . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . 9 a O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Do I think this will work? No, but this is the only "interesting" area remaining on the board where Black can consider a comeback (again, assuming topazg's count is correct - I'm too lazy to verify).
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:56 pm
by Kirby
Judging the board position right now, I'd guess that black has around 50 points, and white has maybe 63.5 or so with komi.
There are still big endgame areas, though, so this could swing a lot of topazg does well in the endgame.
I do agree that playing actively is probably a good way to go, though, because I wouldn't be comfortable playing this endgame as black.
Then again, when am I ever comfortable? hahaha...
Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:38 am
by topazg
After a long day of alcohol, BBQ and other relaxing but unhealthy consumables, I'm probably not in the best frame of mind to play Go, but I'm also feeling pleasantly confident about having some fun here. I've been wanting to attack for ages. I kind of expected Dave to play B4 in the lower left, leaving me with wonderful C3 and F3 aji, but he didn't. At least I have the monkey jump.
However, although the last move may seem passive, I die lots when I attack without becoming strong first (you'd have thought by now that silly proverb would have sunk in, but no, red mist is more fun). Here, I have no settled, and I now want to attack that pesky middle group:
$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X W X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X W . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . W W W . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . b . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . a . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . 9 . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . d . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . c X O O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X W X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X W . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . W W W . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . b . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . a . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . 9 . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . d . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . c X O O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I plan on peeping at "a" with the ability to pull back to "b", and if he ataris at "c", the logical move is now "d", complicating the position and creating one big bang to finish the game with. I'm outnumbered and outgunned, but that didn't stop Henry V (apologies for bringing politics onto L19 ), and it's not going to stop me either.
If I don't play fun, I lose, so I may as well lose in style and maximise my winning chances.
required.
you an ez4u give very interesting commentaries
If I take myself too seriously about it, I have to kick myself and get myself to just find the best move and play it.
I'll post what it is in a few moves
). I am generally poor at spotting the transition when I am playing over the board. As a result, I am often chasing middle-game ideas about fighting when in fact the fights are over or have become so localized as to be of little worth. This can very quickly lead to a big negative swing in points if your opponent is more on the ball and turns to taking profits ahead of you.
, probably with 
because it reduces the liberties of my cutting stones above and because it cedes the fewest points here. However, the exchange gives me either "a" or "b" as future plays depending on how things develop. I then expect to play 
and take the corner. In this situation, I also threaten to put the marked White stone in motion with "c" or possibly the diagonal play one point lower. Because of the previous play, Black has a lot of "strength" facing the center on the left but does not yet have good eye space, much less two distinct eyes. Note that if Black had played 
(the marked stone) at "c", this possibility would not exist.
So how will topazg use his sente? The other substantial issue on the board is White's center stones. Will Black be able to successfully threaten these stones, perhaps starting with the peep at "d", in order to build up the center and naturally prevent me from putting the marked stone in motion? Will Black try to strengthen the center first with some forcing move around "e"? Will Black pull something completely different out of the bag? Stay tuned! 
pair.
