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44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=732

Page 10 of 11

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:28 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
fwiffo wrote:@Bill:
I think that's the most educational, easy-to-understand example of tewari I've ever seen. That might belong on the Sensei's page.


@fwiffo: see my sig.

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:40 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:22 pm
by Violence
After reading for a long time, I have concluded that there is no good way for me to seal him in. I end up dead in every variation I read. Time for a new plan.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O W . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:30 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O B X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:45 pm
by zinger
Wow.

I can hardly believe that both players have overlooked black A7 as topazg showed. That play is in probably every tesuji book I have ever read, even basic ones. But the play suggests that Violence at least has missed it. And maybe Magicwand too, although it is easier to imagine him seeing it but not commenting on it.

:?: :?: :?:


edit:

ok there is a little more here than first meets the eye, but I think white still loses big:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | a X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | 1 . 7 O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | 8 O O . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

.. and black cannot play 9 at a. However:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | 1 . 3 O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If black answers this way, white has not time for 4, since 5 kills the corner. Am I missing something?

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:50 pm
by daniel_the_smith
If b@a7, w@b7, no?

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:00 pm
by zinger
daniel_the_smith wrote:
If b@a7, w@b7, no?


Holy crap I think you're right. What total nonsense I just posted!

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:38 pm
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X W . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:43 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X O . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . B O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:56 pm
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X O W . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:04 am
by Joaz Banbeck
@Magicwand:
Were the two stones at B6 and C6 a mis-read that you abandoned, or were you deliberately creating aji to use later?

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:48 am
by Magicwand
Joaz Banbeck wrote:@Magicwand:
Were the two stones at B6 and C6 a mis-read that you abandoned, or were you deliberately creating aji to use later?

tried to create aji but misread

added comment:
i looked at it and it has very intresting aji hidden. if i get one more marked liberty filled...then aji will come alive. so i didnt lose toomuch points on the exchange. my main goal now is to stablize the group at same time break through.
then he will be in hot water for a while.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | 2 . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 X X O O X X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | 6 O O . B X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O C X O O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | 7 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

edit: then again.. if he plays 2 to connect...i have nothing..

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:02 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . B X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X O O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

if he wants ko i will be glad to fight ko.

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:57 pm
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . X X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X O O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O . . W . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strike here, to solidify.

Re: 44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:59 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . X X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X O O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O . . O B . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
only one move possible
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Page 10 of 11

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