Life In 19x19

Life in 19x19. Go, Weiqi, Baduk... Thats the life.
https://lifein19x19.com/

#205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=7716

Page 10 of 12

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:54 pm
by The Intrepid
A Notice of Delay

topazg, I'll be travelling during the next two weeks, and it's unlikely I'll have time to make moves during that time. Hence, should you fancy taking 14 days to think over your next move, let nothing stop you from doing so. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I briefly looked at a few alternatives, but the simple descent seems easily best. Killing the group outright (with something akin to "a") seems impossible. I also looked at moves like "b" with the intent to give easy life to the group below in exchange for additional strength against the two Black stones above. However, the simple descent should be sufficient against the two stones above, while there is more benefit still to be had from attacking the Black group below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . O . O . a . |
$$ . . . . . . X b . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O . O X X . |
$$ . . . . . O O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

I expect a sequence akin to this one:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ X O . . . O X . . |
$$ X . . . O X X . . |
$$ . . . O X X X . . |
$$ . . . . O X . . . |
$$ . . . . O O X . . |
$$ . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . O O . |
$$ . . . O . O . 5 . |
$$ . . . . . 4 X . . |
$$ . . . . . X . 1 . |
$$ . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ . . . O . O X X . |
$$ . . . . . O O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:10 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think White can kill with one move, so I'm going to extend along the bottom after he responds:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . c O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X . 6 . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . b . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . 4 . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . a . . . O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now "a" makes a serious cutting threat of the shape points at "b". I can't take :b75: first happily because White will just extend at the bottom, which is big, and much though I don't like to get sealed in, White hasn't got any points at my central stone is at least somewhat supported by :b73:

Next, I want to cut at "c" if I can, hopefully either settling the marked Black stones or taking a large territory at the top.

Optimistic and greedy? Me?

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:01 pm
by The Intrepid
14-day thinking time not required? ;)
topazg is playing with fire. The idea behind his move, I believe, is to reduce my territory in sente (I have to respond if I want to deny Black easy life). However, don't I get to play the following eye-space-reducing move in sente?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . O O . |
$$ . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O . O X X . |
$$ . . . . . O O X 1 |
$$ . . . . . . . O X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

This small detail could be the difference between Black group having two eyes on the side and not having them there.

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:45 pm
by The Intrepid
topazg, sorry that I'm taking such a long time to play. I ought to be able to uncork a move soon.
I've looked at the position briefly just now, and I wonder what would happen if I played the following move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . O O . |
$$ . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . X . 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O . O X X . |
$$ . . . . . O O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . O X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:12 pm
by The Intrepid
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm72 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
All right, here we go! One of the two marked groups will die--and if neither of them do, I will get sufficient compensation elsewhere ... or so I think.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ X O . . . O X . . |
$$ X . . . O X X . . |
$$ . . . O X X X . . |
$$ . . . . O X . . . |
$$ . . . . O O X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . # # . . |
$$ . . . . . . O O . |
$$ . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . B . . |
$$ . . . . . B . 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O . O X X . |
$$ . . . . . O O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . O X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

Sample variations:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black gets cut.
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . O O . |
$$ . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X 6 . |
$$ . . . . . X . O . |
$$ . . . . . 5 4 . . |
$$ . . . O . O X X . |
$$ . . . . . O O X . |
$$ . . . . . 2 1 O X |
$$ . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black gets only one eye.
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . O O . |
$$ . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X 1 . |
$$ . . . . . X . O . |
$$ . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ . . . O . O X X . |
$$ . . . . . O O X . |
$$ . . . . . . 4 O X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:21 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm72 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Broadly aiming towards the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm72 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X . 1 . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . 2 5 . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:58 am
by The Intrepid
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It seems topazg is of the mindset that either all of his stones live or none do.

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:48 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . X . O . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:32 pm
by The Intrepid
I can probably exchange :w1: for :b2: before jumping, but I should think about it some more. Also, I need to make sure that I don't need to exchange "a" for "b"--an exchange I'd rather avoid.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . O O . |
$$ . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . a . X O . |
$$ . . . X . X . O . |
$$ . . . b . X . 2 . |
$$ . 3 . O . O X X . |
$$ . . . . . O O X . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 O X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

Overall, it's rather clear that things have gone horrible wrong for Black on the right side. Black was already slightly behind beforehand, so now Black's position must be dire indeed. Barring a catastrophic error, I expect to win handily.

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:25 am
by The Intrepid
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If Black jumps, I plan to jump, too, keeping the pressure on Black's entire group while gaining profit along the edge.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . O O . |
$$ . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . 1 . X . X . O . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . 2 . O . O X X . |
$$ . . . . . O O X . |
$$ . . . . . . O O X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:07 am
by The Intrepid
I just thought to make sure you did not miss my last move. Take as much time to think as you'd like, though.

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:09 pm
by The Intrepid
I just sent topazg a private message, telling him that he's being missed on this forum. Hopefully he comes back to us. Also, I sure wouldn't mind getting this game going again. ;)

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:39 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . 2 O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb and sacrifice my whole group, and then count.

I don't like running with something so sad looking, and if I make something on the bottom (instead of running away and giving him the bottom) it's going to be not too unacceptable as an exchange.

If things look really bad afterwards, I can resign happily enough - I've been away for long enough I've lost any emotional investment in this game, so I'd rather just make it interesting and then see if it's worth continuing with :P

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:53 pm
by The Intrepid
And the game goes on! :D I'll need to think about the position a little bit, refresh my memory.

Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:43 pm
by The Intrepid
White group in the bottom-right is pretty strong, so I can cut without needing to worry about that group. However, I suspect that topazg's plan is to use the cut to play a few forcing moves and then hit me with a tesuji at P8.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O 0 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . 1 2 . X . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . X O . O X X . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So far, I can't find any lines where this "tesuji" actually works (as long as I play correctly, that is). I better make sure I'm not misreading here, though, as my making a big misread is topazg's only chance at a comback, as far as I can see.
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 10 of 12

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited