Life In 19x19

tapir wrote:

Gerlige wrote:Yeah. The level of EGF rank is quite country dependent. For example in Czech Republic is known that our kyu players are level or two stronger than German players with same rank.

Btw I'm EGF 12k and KGS 6k, deal with it.

Taking pride in a broken rating system, oh the beauty of sandbagging. (Ever tried taking 9 stones from Czech 3k?)

There is this wonderful study by Andre Engels about kyu ranks. Basically showing that self-ranking has higher predictive value for the outcome of a game than EGF rating. Sample were kyu games in Netherlands as far as I remember.

But what can I do? If I claim my rank higher I'll only lose because all players around me have same conditions. It's not sandbagging per se. It's not like I keep my rank down so I can win over weaker players. It's something that just happens because there are not enough matches between lower kyu players from different countries and not enough matches in general to depend on just statistical rank distribution of rating system itself.

So we try to encourage players who improved significantly to set their rank higher before they attend a tournament. So they don't just "steal" rating from others. But what else can we do?

EDIT: With 3kyus and such I usually play lower (than 9 stones) handicaps but it's not like I'm confident to say they would have no chance.

hyperpape wrote:Amusingly, the European Go Database includes records and ranks for some major international tournaments that feature European players. So you can filter for US players, or learn that Cho Cheolhan is the best in the world, ahead of Gu Li.

For many reasons, not just the lack of data, you should use this solely for amusement. But I must note that Shapenaji is a respectable 2594. So much for weak US dans.

Yeah, pretty much all non-European players have only one or two tournaments in the database, so the most significant component to their rating is their claimed rank. If you play a tournament as 6d, the EGF starts you at 2600 regardless of country, so Shapenaji's rating is based in going 4-1 in his only tournament in the database, losing a few points from his start rating.

HermanHiddema wrote:
Yeah, pretty much all non-European players have only one or two tournaments in the database, so the most significant component to their rating is their claimed rank. If you play a tournament as 6d, the EGF starts you at 2600 regardless of country, so Shapenaji's rating is based in going 4-1 in his only tournament in the database, losing a few points from his start rating.

Yeah, I don't bring up my rating in the EGF for just this reason, I played 2 games against EGF 4d's and one against an EGF 3d and didn't lose (I lost to a Canadian player who also didn't have a fixed EGF rank, hence the tiny movement). The last game was against an EGF 1d I think?

My rating in the EGF is a complete fluke, which is why I turn to other examples .

RBerenguel wrote:

alejo wrote:I'm Egf 10k, kgs 5 kyu... and it gets worse with the lowest ranks. EGF 20 k may be a 13k at KGS... which did happen at the Barcelona tournament a few months ago.

Bullsh*t 10k EGF, next tournament you have to enter as 8k Sandbagger!

I remember you registered as a 9k and I lost against you and Pol, both terrifying sandbaggers... there is no way I'm entering as a 8k on the next tournament. I haven't improved at all... and I not hiding my KGS games (as other people do )

Can't be helped, games are played in the room and it's private. You can check my awesome style in blitz as soon as I post my blitz account name over the study journal (one of these days )

shapenaji wrote:Yeah, I don't bring up my rating in the EGF for just this reason, I played 2 games against EGF 4d's and one against an EGF 3d and didn't lose (I lost to a Canadian player who also didn't have a fixed EGF rank, hence the tiny movement). The last game was against an EGF 1d I think?

On your player page http://europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Player ... y=15037968 you can click the "games" button to get a list of games, "GoR evolution" button to get details on the opponent's ratings and how they affected your rating. Last game was a Bosnian 2d player with an EGF 2k (ca. 1900) rating.

HermanHiddema wrote:

shapenaji wrote:Yeah, I don't bring up my rating in the EGF for just this reason, I played 2 games against EGF 4d's and one against an EGF 3d and didn't lose (I lost to a Canadian player who also didn't have a fixed EGF rank, hence the tiny movement). The last game was against an EGF 1d I think?

On your player page http://europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Player ... y=15037968 you can click the "games" button to get a list of games, "GoR evolution" button to get details on the opponent's ratings and how they affected your rating. Last game was a Bosnian 2d player with an EGF 2k (ca. 1900) rating.

Ah, yes that's considerably easier than going through the wall pairings.

Another piece of anecdotal evidence here:

I have a friend locally who's Chinese 5d (young guy, not an old rating), and he and I are close rivals (essentially, black wins).

Now the popular wisdom, not too long ago, was that EGF = Chinese + 1, Either that is no longer the case, or according to the previous entries in this thread, I should be KGS 6-9d... something which seems a bit farfetched.

Obviously there's a significant degree of regional variation, as well as national pride locked up in the ranks, which makes the whole EGF-KGS relationship very cloudy.

Yes, the fact that ratings mostly reflect declared rank/professional ranks is the killer. The only thing you could look at is a player's change in rating, but even that is usually a mess because their opponents' ratings may just be based on declared rank. There's no way to make real use of those numbers.

shapenaji wrote:

HermanHiddema wrote:

shapenaji wrote:Yeah, I don't bring up my rating in the EGF for just this reason, I played 2 games against EGF 4d's and one against an EGF 3d and didn't lose (I lost to a Canadian player who also didn't have a fixed EGF rank, hence the tiny movement). The last game was against an EGF 1d I think?

On your player page http://europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Player ... y=15037968 you can click the "games" button to get a list of games, "GoR evolution" button to get details on the opponent's ratings and how they affected your rating. Last game was a Bosnian 2d player with an EGF 2k (ca. 1900) rating.

Ah, yes that's considerably easier than going through the wall pairings.

Another piece of anecdotal evidence here:

I have a friend locally who's Chinese 5d (young guy, not an old rating), and he and I are close rivals (essentially, black wins).

Now the popular wisdom, not too long ago, was that EGF = Chinese + 1, Either that is no longer the case, or according to the previous entries in this thread, I should be KGS 6-9d... something which seems a bit farfetched.

Obviously there's a significant degree of regional variation, as well as national pride locked up in the ranks, which makes the whole EGF-KGS relationship very cloudy.

I think the Chinese rating system is even worse to compare to, especially Chinese 5d.. The definition of Chinese 5d is very vague, as some Chinese 5d can give another Chinese 5d up to 7-9 handicap.. From what I've heard the reason for this was that Chinese pros were allowed to sell dan-ranks a few years back which created a huge inflation in the system..

However, I have yet to see a Chinese 6d that was not overwhelmingly strong, and I think that the only way to become Chinese 6d is to win a big district tournament, so perhaps in that case the EGF = Chinese + 1 (or more) would hold true. When I used to be EGF 5d 2009 I entered a ranking tournament for Chinese 5ds in Shanghai and ended up going 7-2 or 8-1, can't remember exactly =P. I was awarded with a diploma and the rank of Chinese 5d with 3 stars (which is max, though I'm not sure what these stars actually mean).. But since that timed I promoted to EGF 6d so perhaps the EGF = Chinese +1 hold true after all .

Good thing I'm from 'Merica! where the EGF doesn't apply