John Fairbairn wrote:There is not a single example of this in pro database games, even late in the game.
I found one (move 130):
Hardly qualifies as a sanrensei at that point.
Well, John did claim "even late in the game."
What a crazy game, how does that end as black +1? Amazing. Thanks, daaldude.
Re: Sanrensei question
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:42 am
by Bill Spight
DrStraw wrote:
Aidoneus wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:Each step by White adds only 2 points of territory in the limit, while each step by Black (this early in the game) adds more than 3 points worth of influence. (Dr. Straw and I are in close agreement about that.)
This seems quite reasonable and a useful general observation. Does there exist a thread where you and DrStraw have discussed this?
Thank you for the correct appellation. Bill seems to want to refer to me as Dr. Straw, not DrStraw.
Sorry, DrStraw. Spelling corrected in quoted post.
As for your question, I don't recall a specific thread, more just comments scattered throughout the forum.
Re: Sanrensei question
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:31 pm
by Loons
I'm a bit bemused by our apparent desire to call ... Strange Midgame Attachment a reasonable move.
Edit: I realise lots of people were expressing this tacitly, but I think we should be explicit here. was not good.
looks like the right play for White. Then is simple and strong. Now if connects at 9, Black has a good play at 5. After and , it is not clear where White should play. If White plays as in the diagram, he is a bit overconcentrated.
Just to be sure... if what should white reply ? I would say "a".. or is there an escape or good move with the help of ?
Hi oca, at (a) is a standard beginner mistake. (I just saw this kind of move discussed in a review on KGS last night! )
at (b) is a much better reply.
Re:
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:42 am
by oca
EdLee wrote:Hi oca, at (a) is a standard beginner mistake. (I just saw this kind of move discussed in a review on KGS last night! )
at (b) is a much better reply.
Thx EdLee, that's good to know !
Re:
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:56 am
by tj86430
EdLee wrote:Hi oca, at (a) is a standard beginner mistake. (I just saw this kind of move discussed in a review on KGS last night! )
at (b) is a much better reply.
how about one point above a?
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:22 am
by EdLee
tj86430 wrote:how about one point above a?
Hi TJ, good question. That kosumi (diagonal move for Black) is also a better move than (a).
How to decide between the kosumi and (b) depends on the whole board situation (as usual ).
Re:
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:56 am
by tj86430
EdLee wrote:
tj86430 wrote:how about one point above a?
Hi TJ, good question. That kosumi (diagonal move for Black) is also a better move than (a).
How to decide between the kosumi and (b) depends on the whole board situation (as usual ).
There was a whole board in oca's post. What would you choose in that situation?
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:44 am
by EdLee
Hi TJ, I'm not sure, but probably (b);
but the kosumi is probably OK, too, especially around these levels, IMO. In other words, mistakes made later will have a far greater impact on the game than the choice between these two moves. This is not to say it's useless to study these two moves; but that the game is not decided here (for certain levels), and that there are much bigger problems and more urgent mistakes to fix for these levels, IMO.
Re: Re:
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:11 am
by Bill Spight
tj86430 wrote:
EdLee wrote:Hi oca, at (a) is a standard beginner mistake. (I just saw this kind of move discussed in a review on KGS last night! )
at (b) is a much better reply.
how about one point above a?
Apparently you meant the kosumi. But in case you meant the attachment, . . .
(;ST[2]SZ[19]AP[GOWrite:2.2.21]GM[1]CA[ISO8859-1]FF[4]PM[2]PB[ ]AB[pd][pj][pp]GN[ ]FG[259:]PW[ ] ;W[pg] ;B[pf]C[*** This attachment is an interesting play. Inoue Gennan Inseki gives some variations in the "Igo Myoden".
OC, in those days it was played in the context of handicap games.] ( ;W[og] ;B[qg] ;W[qh] ;B[qf] ) ( ;W[of] ;B[qf] ;W[od] ;B[oc] ( ;W[nd] ;B[pc] ) ( ;W[pc] ;B[oe] ;W[nd] ;B[qc] ;W[pb] ;B[ne] ;W[qd] ;B[pe] ;W[md] ;B[rc] )
( ;W[qg]C[*** Inoue does not give this variation, but it transposes to one which starts with the large knight's approach.] ;B[og] ( ;W[oh] ;B[qf]C[*** Transposing to hane at the head of two stones.] ;W[rf] ;B[re] ;W[rg] ;B[ng] ;W[rd]C[*** Now if White plays this clamp, . . .] ;B[qd] ;W[se] ;B[rc] ;W[qe] ;B[pe] ) ( ;W[qf] ;B[of]C[*** Simple and strong.] ( ;W[qe] ;B[qd]C[*** Not so great for White. It is as though in the tsuke-nobi joseki White had made a solid connection at R-13. Inoue gives a couple of continuations that seem appropriate for handicap play.] ) ( ;W[qd] ;B[qc] ;W[qe] ;B[pc] )
)
)
( ;W[qf] ;B[of]C[*** Transposes to tsuke-nobi. There are many variations, OC. ] )
)
Re: Re:
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:52 am
by tj86430
Bill Spight wrote:Apparently you meant the kosumi. But in case you meant the attachment, . . .
Indeed I did. But what you presented was very interesting, and I thank you for that.
Spelling corrected in quoted post. 
... Strange Midgame Attachment a reasonable move.looks like the right play for White. Then
is simple and strong. Now if
connects at 9, Black has a good play at 5. After
, it is not clear where White should play. If White plays as in the diagram, he is a bit overconcentrated.
?
at (a) is a standard beginner mistake. (I just saw this kind of move discussed in a review on KGS last night! )
(a).
(a) in the above diagram.)