Life In 19x19

Dusk Eagle, my typos. Very difficult to edit and view SGF on an iPhone 4S !!

Aidoneus wrote:instead of b10:B16 Black could play B14, protecting the stone at C13.

Correct. Locally, B14 is the only move for . It's not that B "could," but B must.
Given the mistake of at B16, what's the correct move for ?
(Same question from posts 11 and 12.)

Both Dusk Eagle and I mean the correct local moves.

EdLee wrote:

Aidoneus wrote:instead of b10:B16 Black could play B14, protecting the stone at C13.

Correct. Locally, B14 is the only move for . It's not that B "could," but B must.
Given the mistake of at B16, what's the correct move for ?
(Same question from posts 11 and 12.)

Both Dusk Eagle and I mean the correct local moves.

Sacrifice the two White stones with w11:B14. Please wait to respond till I post a different sequence for Black 8!

After looking more at Black 8, maybe the atari at D14 instead of the extension at B15 leads to a dead corner for White:



Even if I'm wrong about White being dead, I like that White is locked in. Black IS much better, right?

See Jane run. See Dick throw ball. See Jane catch ball. Back to kindergarten for me.

Your original black 8 was correct. The one you updated is not as good (though that's a really useful sequence sometimes and is worth remembering). For one, that's not an L-group - if white gets C18 next, that's what we call a large L-group. It's one bigger than a typical L group. Compare the two so you don't get confused in a game . For two, white can play B13 to make even more eyes as well.

You almost had it with your original , but then was wrong. If black plays B14 for , can white live?

EdLee wrote:Yes, another local move instead of .
Another bad thing about , which you don't understand yet,
is it makes a broken shape for you.

b41 leads to a ripped keima. It was just awful, please forgive me.

I should have laddered with b69:O14:

Dusk Eagle wrote:You almost had it with your original , but then was wrong. If black plays B14 for , can white live?

Is at B14 better than at D14, though? I think that I tried to add a sequence where White connected under Blacks stone at B15.

Back to D14 ; B14 where Black has four liberties to White's three. First, White can't cut the stone at C13 because the cutter will get laddered to the edge. So the two stones inside would have to add liberties or indirectly prepare the cut with at B16. But against that move, simplest seems to be just connecting with at B13. Instead, trying to add liberties with at C18 lets Black play at B16 and White's liberty shortage continues while White runs out of eye space.

I have to say again, I feel very grateful for the lessons!! Especially as I feel like the slow kid in the class...

This shape has some variations in Kogo's Joseki Dictionary:
http://eidogo.com/#kjd:pdttmcdpqg

ETA: Assuming your opponent didn't diverge so early.

yoyoma wrote:This shape has some variations in Kogo's Joseki Dictionary:
http://eidogo.com/#kjd:pdttmcdpqg

ETA: Assuming your opponent didn't diverge so early.

Yeah, I looked at Eidogo. But note in your link, this Joseki does not include a variation in which the 4-4 player extends to the second line, which was the continuation I asked about in my original question. And as I stated, I only found three games with such an extension when I searched at Eidogo. The lack of an entry in Kogo's Joseki Dictionary, which was included with my copy of Many Faces of Go (and maybe my copy of SmartGo?), is what led me astray in thinking that there existed a "refutation."