Life In 19x19

karaklis wrote:You have to decide whether the stone in question is a key stone or a junk stone. Professionals need less than a millisecond for that decision.

I find the above highly suspect. How did you measure that?

In my perspective, and in my games, most determination between Junk Stones and Key Stones strongly depends on the way I plan to develop the game, and this plan can often be rather complex, and thus the decision not very obvious. I would assume this is much more so in pro games.

Unless your differentiation is the very narrow distinction between 'cutting stones' and 'all other stones' (hinted at on SL)... although even then things can get complex - some cutting stones, for example, can safely be called 'junk' and sacrificed, while others are important, and so on...

Bantari, I'd be happy to sell you my encephalochronometer if you *really* want to test his assertion...

@HermanHiddema
isn't this the game shown on hikaru no go episode 3 where sai plays against The shogi club captain?

balmung wrote:@HermanHiddema
isn't this the game shown on hikaru no go episode 3 where sai plays against The shogi club captain?

Indeed it is.

I have finished memorizing the 2010 Fujitsu Cup Final, and have moved on to memorizing this one. Lots of fun.

daniel_the_smith wrote:

Stefany93 wrote:I won the 10 euros wow

Should I be concerned that when I read this my first thought was, "bets are miai counting, that's twice as much as it sounds like"?

Yes, you should.

Helel wrote:

Bantari wrote:

karaklis wrote:You have to decide whether the stone in question is a key stone or a junk stone. Professionals need less than a millisecond for that decision.

I find the above highly suspect. How did you measure that?

Hint: When people say things like "in a millisecond" they usually don't mean it to be taken literally.

Surely karaklis only exaggerated a bit for effect.
I read it as:
"It is hard for beginners to know which stones to save/try to capture and which to sacrifice/leave alone. This becomes easier as one gets stronger".

But if you like to nitpick who am I to stop you.

I guess I deserve to be called out for being over-picky and looking at the words rather than intended meaning.
But then - aren't we all?

When you look past my words at the meaning rather than nitpicking yourself, you'd see that the message is that it is often not so easy to tell which stones are 'junk' and which are 'key'. I assume this holds for the pros as well as it does for me. We can both nitpick nitpicking or we can discuss, your choice.

Helel wrote:

Bantari wrote:I guess I deserve to be called out for being over-picky and looking at the words rather than intended meaning.
But then - aren't we all?

When you look past my words at the meaning rather than nitpicking yourself, you'd see that the message is that it is often not so easy to tell which stones are 'junk' and which are 'key'. I assume this holds for the pros as well as it does for me. We can both nitpick nitpicking or we can discuss, your choice.

Ah, such a hard hard choice...

The question whether the separation into 'junk' and 'key' stones is instinctive for pros or sometimes require considerable effort has merit.
I wouldn't presume to know, and I think karaklis more or less is equally clueless, so as things stand you may well be right.
It would however be great if someone else with an educated opinion would like to share his/her knowledge.

At the lower amateur dan level it's generally instantly understood IF we remember to think about that before going "hey, I can capture those!" Less than a millisecond, not sure, but definitely less than 1/2 second.

On the other hand, pros and extremely strong amateurs think a lot more deeply and see more variations at a glance than lower dan level players, so I could understand if they actually took longer in tournament situations to reach their conclusion - they're reading whole board variations 60 or 70 moves in advance and comparing them so that they can decide which strategy suits them better. However, when a pro is reviewing an amateur game, they're trying to give advice that we can follow. So they will decide the status "at a glance" the same way an amateur 1-5 dan player would.

Bantari wrote:We can both nitpick nitpicking or we can discuss, your choice.

Ah, you want to discuss the nitpicking, instead of nitpicking it. Thanks for clarifying

CarlJung wrote:

Bantari wrote:We can both nitpick nitpicking or we can discuss, your choice.

Ah, you want to discuss the nitpicking, instead of nitpicking it. Thanks for clarifying

I am always interested in a meaningful discussion, as everybody knows.
And nitpicking is such a wonderful subject...

LokBuddha wrote:Oh no Oh no, I remember there was a game that Huang Longshi play against Xu Xingyuo giving him 3 stones or 4 don't remember, and Huang went and capture everything. Huge fight, great display of skill. Now that was in the Qing dynasty lol very old

Actually In a commentary on go commentary Xu Xing You basically made a blunder and some overplays he was killed because he tried too hard to attack and then he got killed In the game I felt like Xu Xing you made the game much more complicated that it needed to be if he simply took the corners settled his groups and tried to make territory white would not have enough territory also shouldn't pay attention to life and death mean they don't get killed?

standardtrickyness wrote:

LokBuddha wrote:Oh no Oh no, I remember there was a game that Huang Longshi play against Xu Xingyuo giving him 3 stones or 4 don't remember, and Huang went and capture everything. Huge fight, great display of skill. Now that was in the Qing dynasty lol very old

Actually In a commentary on go commentary Xu Xing You basically made a blunder and some overplays he was killed because he tried too hard to attack and then he got killed In the game I felt like Xu Xing you made the game much more complicated that it needed to be if he simply took the corners settled his groups and tried to make territory white would not have enough territory also shouldn't pay attention to life and death mean they don't get killed?

Random thread necromancy for the win.