Life In 19x19

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:05 pm**

Bill Spight wrote:auf dem -> aum?

Not bad, you’ve got the idea, but in this case—in spoken German—it would become “auf’m”.

Cordially, Tom

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:10 pm**

Uberdude wrote:Another question for German speakers: do you wince when you see my username without an umlaut or e?

Heh, no

It’s rather what I’d expect from a user w/ a non-German keyboard.

When I played Unreal Tournament I had an umlaut because that supported extended characters in usernames, but most places don't. I just find ueber a bit ugly,

Yes, using plain “U” definitely is better than “Ue” in this case, especially since you’re using it together with an English word, not a German one (although to mold them into one word again is German, no?

).

and uber has somewhat been adopted into English as a prefix meaning ~'super'.

Yes, and I think this is well-known among Germans who read a lot of EN.

Herzliche Grüße,

Tom

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:43 pm**

Bonobo wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:auf dem -> aum?

Not bad, you’ve got the idea, but in this case—in spoken German—it would become “auf’m”.

Did you catch the pseudo-Deutsch/Sanskrit pun?

There's a Greek/English/Deutsch pun, too.

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:58 pm**

Bonobo wrote:
Uberdude wrote:When I played Unreal Tournament I had an umlaut because that supported extended characters in usernames, but most places don't. I just find ueber a bit ugly,
Yes, using plain “U” definitely is better than “Ue” in this case, especially since you’re using it together with an English word, not a German one (although to mold them into one word again is German, no? ).

Of he really meant to be Überduden, superior to the dictionary. If you only have a dictionary with the neue Falschschreibung, than you probably are superior to it.

(My mother worked in a school and rescued from the library a very old German/English dictionary from before the previous spelling reforms. All the German is in Fraktur and uses a lot of th's.)

Posted: **Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:29 am**

Bill Spight wrote:
Bonobo wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:auf dem -> aum?

Not bad, you’ve got the idea, but in this case—in spoken German—it would become “auf’m”.
Did you catch the pseudo-Deutsch/Sanskrit pun?

Yes, Bill, that one I noticed _/\_ namasté

There's a Greek/English/Deutsch pun, too.

that one I’m missing

Regards, Tom

<edit>

p.s.: And Fedya: nice … I also have lots of olden German books with funny orthography (as seen from today).

</edit>

Posted: **Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:53 am**

Bonobo wrote:
When I played Unreal Tournament I had an umlaut because that supported extended characters in usernames, but most places don't. I just find ueber a bit ugly,
Yes, using plain “U” definitely is better than “Ue” in this case, especially since you’re using it together with an English word, not a German one (although to mold them into one word again is German, no? ).

This reminds me of when the so called Scandinavian letters of the Finnish alphabet (esp. ä & ö) were replaced by ae and oe in e.g. sports broadcasts. For instance Väätäinen (fairly common name in Finland a fairly good long distance runner in the seventies - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juha_V%C3% ... %C3%A4inen) became Vaeaetaeinen

Posted: **Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:11 am**

tj86430 wrote:This reminds me of when the so called Scandinavian letters of the Finnish alphabet (esp. ä & ö) were replaced by ae and oe in e.g. sports broadcasts. For instance Väätäinen (fairly common name in Finland a fairly good long distance runner in the seventies - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juha_V%C3% ... %C3%A4inen) became Vaeaetaeinen

What is your opinion here?

IMHO it would be better to write “Vaatainen” instead, though I’d certainy advise any people working with or for me to write it correctly as “Väätäinen”.

Reminds me of a cutout from a magazine or newspaper that I had pinned on the wall next to my desk some 25 yrs ago, with the name of a Finnish town: “Kürpälääibäüxikaxi” (is this correct? Did it from my fading memory.)

Greetz, Töm

Posted: **Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:11 am**

Bonobo wrote:
tj86430 wrote:This reminds me of when the so called Scandinavian letters of the Finnish alphabet (esp. ä & ö) were replaced by ae and oe in e.g. sports broadcasts. For instance Väätäinen (fairly common name in Finland a fairly good long distance runner in the seventies - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juha_V%C3% ... %C3%A4inen) became Vaeaetaeinen
What is your opinion here?

IMHO it would be better to write “Vaatainen” instead, though I’d certainy advise any people working with or for me to write it correctly as “Väätäinen”.

Reminds me of a cutout from a magazine or newspaper that I had pinned on the wall next to my desk some 25 yrs ago, with the name of a Finnish town: “Kürpälääibäüxikaxi” (is this correct? Did it from my fading memory.)

Greetz, Töm

If ä is not available, I would definitely choose a over ae, IMHO Vaatainen is much better than Vaeaetaeinen.

Your town name is not correct. Firstly, there is no ü in Finnish, and x is very rarely used, and never in local names (only in words that come directly from other languages). Also b is extremely rare in town/willage names (I cant think of any right now, but I wouldn't say there are none). If you make some changes you get Kyrpälääipäyksikaksi, which starts to look like a Finnish word (but is not). "Kyrpä" is a rude word meaning penis, and "lä" is a common ending in village names, so Kyrpälä could be an attempted humorous village name. In the end "yksi" = one and "kaksi" = two. The "äipä" in the middle makes no sense in Finnish. I suspect that the original name has been a fictional one, in addition to which you don't remember it exactly right.

Posted: **Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:17 pm**

tapir wrote:It is probably healthier to think of it like this, the dative form is only used in either article or adjectives, if an article is present, the adjectives use the accusative form. That means -en is not the dative form, as is instantly obvious, when you use a noun without articles.

"in einer großen Stadt"

"in großer Eile" (in a big hurry) !

"im großen Haus" - this looks like an exception, but here "im" is shortened for "in dem" so this might confuse learners (an dem -> am is similar)

As a non-native speaker, I don't quite follow your reasoning when you say that if an article is present the adjectives use the accusative form and that-en is not the dative form. The accusative form of adjectives only ends in -en if the noun is masculine: Ich mag diesen frischen Salat(m), aber nicht diese dünne Suppe(f) und dieses warme Bier(n) and this differs from the dative endings of the adjectives if a der or ein word is present: Ich ging mit meinem guten Freund(m), seiner hübschen Freundin(f) und ihrem dämlichen Söhnchen(n) ins Restaurant. When no article is present, adjectives take the strong endings: Frischer Salat(m) schmeckt gut, dünne Suppe(f) und warmes Bier(n) aber nicht.

The way I learned it was that there are two types of limiting words, the der words (der, dieser, jeder, welcher) and the ein words (ein, kein and all possessive adjectives) These words take either strong endings, or in 3 cases, no endings (masculine and neuter ein words in the nominative and neuter, and neuter ein words in the accusative)*. The adjectives that follow limiting words then take weak endings unless the limiting word has no ending, in which case the adjective takes a strong ending, for example: Dein ehemaliger Freund(nom. m) war ein kleines Männchen(nom. n) das kein helles Bier(acc. n) mochte.

The strong endings are:

Code: Select all

Case           M           N          F        Pl.

Nom           -er*        -es*       -e       -e
Acc           -en         -es*       -e       -e
Dat           -em         -em        -er      -en
Gen           -es         -es        -er      -er

* here the [i]ein[/i] words have no ending

The weak endings are:

Code: Select all

Case           M           N          F        Pl.

Nom           -e          -e         -e       -en
Acc           -en         -e         -e       -en
Dat           -en         -en        -en      -en
Gen           -en         -en        -en      -en

If this seems like too much, there's always the option of chucking the German SO for a Dutch one, and then the only thing to figure out as far as adjective endings go is when to add -e. :p

Posted: **Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:54 pm**

Bonobo wrote:
There's a Greek/English/Deutsch pun, too.
that one I’m missing

Well, it's too much of a stretch, I guess.

pseudo-Deutsch - Süddeutsch, with an English pronunciation of the Greek pseudo and the German Süd. Just something that came to mind when I wrote pseudo-Deutsch.

Posted: **Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:49 pm**

daal wrote:As a non-native speaker, ...

As so often the native speaker doesn't know the rules. your explanation is of course right.

I simply wanted to point out that the explanation given in the only answer to the original question was despite the length of the thread not correct. ("the dative form for adjectives is always -en" - no, it isn't.)

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