Life In 19x19

ystao wrote:

illluck wrote:I'm not sure about the version of Zen you are using, but one common error I see on Chinese forums is to select "5 dan" as the setting rather than selecting a time. Even the 10 seconds Zen is much much stronger than the "5 dan" Zen. You can only select either the time or the strength, so make sure you have time selected.

This Thanks for pointing this out. Do you know if it's the same with crazy stone?
And my colleague just told me she mistakenly sent a computation to my laptop 3 weeks ago. I immediately killed her process and revoked her remote access permission, no wonder crazy stone was crazy slow.
I just played 1 game against Zen with 10 seconds setting, it's easier than '5 dan'. An easy win before 200 moves. After that '120 seconds' Zen took a full 60 seconds on first move and 90 seconds on second move , I'll play against that tomorrow to see if it is very strong.

I have never heard of anyone saying 10s is weaker than the 5 dan setting (even on really terrible laptops). Would you mind checking to make sure there are no resource hogs running in the background and that ONLY the time setting is selected? I wouldn't bother with the 120s without making sure that the 10s is stronger than 5 dan first.

BTW, just today CS won the first round in the UEC cup.
(Links go to Rémi Coulom’s posts on Google+)

Bonobo wrote:BTW, just today CS won the first round in the UEC cup.
(Links go to Rémi Coulom’s posts on Google+)

Crazy Stone won the tourney
And then my go idol(Cho Chikun) defeated Crazy Stone in a 3-stone handicap game.

illluck wrote: I have never heard of anyone saying 10s is weaker than the 5 dan setting (even on really terrible laptops). Would you mind checking to make sure there are no resource hogs running in the background and that ONLY the time setting is selected? I wouldn't bother with the 120s without making sure that the 10s is stronger than 5 dan first.

I have checked settings again. I rebooted my laptop and stopped most unnecessary processes in the background. I didn't mean "10s Zen" was significantly easier than "5 dan", maybe it's just me getting use to Zen's style and more relaxed during the games. I tried "5 dan" again and now I also felt it easier than I first played it. I even defeated '120s' dan during the weekend. When I first played Zen, I was behind most of the time and often won only on yose (I noticed Zen is weak on yose), now I usually gain advantage during mid games.
However, I still have poor win ratio(<50%) against crazy stone.

ystao wrote:

Bonobo wrote:BTW, just today CS won the first round in the UEC cup.
(Links go to Rémi Coulom’s posts on Google+)

Crazy Stone won the tourney
And then my go idol(Cho Chikun) defeated Crazy Stone in a 3-stone handicap game.

Thank you for the upload.
Now i know why they call it crazy stone.
Playing crazy moves time to time... i think i can beat that program in 3 stone myself.
I guess there are still many areas of improvment in Computer go.

ystao wrote:(Cho Chikun) defeated Crazy Stone in a 3-stone handicap game.

Hi ystao, Thanks. Do you happen to know whether Mr. Cho or any other pro(s)
also played CS at 4 stones, at this tourney, or recently ? If so, do you have the results and game records ?

Magicwand wrote:i think i can beat that program in 3 stone myself.

Put your money where your mouth is ?

Sennahoj wrote:

Magicwand wrote:i think i can beat that program in 3 stone myself.

Put your money where your mouth is ?

Yes. Beating computer is not too hard.
I see that CS playeď handful of obvious mIstakes, it is very hard to win against human who knows how to play.

EdLee wrote:

ystao wrote:(Cho Chikun) defeated Crazy Stone in a 3-stone handicap game.

Hi ystao, Thanks. Do you happen to know whether Mr. Cho or any other pro(s)
also played CS at 4 stones, at this tourney, or recently ? If so, do you have the results and game records ?

Densei-sen is an event after UEC, where a pro will play against both finalists of UEC, the computer go tounrey. Mr. Cho played this year.
Cho lost to the runner up in the first game (4-stone handicap game against a Korean Go program), the game aginst Crazy Stone was the second game. Last year Yoda Norimoto lost to CS at 4 stones, I think the game can be found on this forum.

Magicwand wrote:

Sennahoj wrote:

Magicwand wrote:i think i can beat that program in 3 stone myself.

Put your money where your mouth is ?

Yes. Beating computer is not too hard.
I see that CS playeď handful of obvious mIstakes, it is very hard to win against human who knows how to play.

Although I agree CrazyStone played some strange mistakes it seemed weaker than other games it's played; your opponent being a 9p tends to do that. I suggest you also look at it playing 6d amateur FJ Dickhut:
https://go.codecentric.de/#homepage and http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=10890

I would probably bet on CS rather than you in a 3-stone game, particularly if you have not studied its play a lot to adapt to its style and weakness.

Uberdude wrote: Although I agree CrazyStone played some strange mistakes it seemed weaker than other games it's played; your opponent being a 9p tends to do that.

I would like to suppose that the Semeai in the lower left corner, including an approach-move liberty, and being "unfinished" for the entire remaining game, served to "waste" a decicive amount of processing power of a programm that is based on the Monte-Carlo-Algorithm.

Magicwand wrote:Yes. Beating computer is not too hard.
I see that CS playeď handful of obvious mIstakes, it is very hard to win against human who knows how to play.

Can you shortly mark the moves that were mistakes in your opinion?

Pippen wrote:

Magicwand wrote:Yes. Beating computer is not too hard.
I see that CS playeď handful of obvious mIstakes, it is very hard to win against human who knows how to play.

Can you shortly mark the moves that were mistakes in your opinion?

Move 10: it is in the joseki book that black can not hanne. CS didnt know joseki.
Move 14: i know it is written that you capture the cut stone but not on this board.
Move 28: really? i guess CS is satisfied with what appears to be influence...
Move 50: this is a perfect example of computer playing influence without any plan.
Move 54: CS is trying to capture cut stone but can not read what he will giveup catch one stone.
Move 64: kyuish attack.
Move 70, 72: appears to be an attack that is not really an attack...
Move 78: When board gets complicated.. CS plays Crazy moves.
Move 100 and 101 trade: helped white and lost sente
Move 110, 112: whY????
Move 120, 124, 146, 150, 152, 154............: crazy computer moves

I understand that computer is trying hard to make the game even after losing big in the beginning.
but if you play a move...it should have meaning. It least ddk moves are full of purpose although it is wrong.
This computer lacks spirit and reading ability.

I will be honest and say that i can beat CS in 4 stone game.

Magicwand wrote: I will be honest and say that i can beat CS in 4 stone game.

Which is something Yoda Norimoto failed at a year ago...

oren wrote:

Magicwand wrote: I will be honest and say that i can beat CS in 4 stone game.

Which is something Yoda Norimoto failed at a year ago...

He failed because he treated it as human player.