How to deal with losses

[Kirby]

Losing too much is certainly not fun, but I don't quite get what's going on. If you are only winning 40% of your games, that might be an indication that you are a bit weak at your current rank. If you are losing all of your games, then your rank should drop and you should start encountering opponents you can beat 50% of the time. Perhaps some of your frustration comes from thinking that you are (or should be) stronger than you really are.

I can describe my feeling with the following analogy.

I decide that I want to lose some weight. I set a goal of losing, say, 40 pounds. To achieve this goal, I start to diet and exercise. I change my routine so that I can start to see a difference. When I get home from work, instead of sitting down and using the Internet, I get on the treadmill and run for an hour. And instead of eating that burrito that tastes so good at lunchtime, I start eating salad every day in order to cut down on the number of calories I eat. At first, I see a big difference. But as time goes on, the amount of weight I am losing starts to decrease. My body adjusts, and before I know it, I'm only losing a pound every two weeks.

It's hard work to exercise for an hour every day, and I really miss those burritos at lunchtime. So in some ways, I feel that I'm losing some pleasure in life. But at least I can console myself that, ever so gradually, I am losing a bit of weight.

Then one day, it's my best friend's birthday. I've been on this diet for weeks now, and I've gradually lost maybe 10 pounds. But I decide that this is a special occasion - just for today, I'll relax on my diet. So I eat what I want at the party. It's enjoyable. But then the next day, I check my weight, and I've gained back 5 pounds.

What took me weeks to achieve is lost from a small loss of willpower. This is very frustrating. And it makes me wonder why I have bothered sacrificing those burritos in the first place.

---

Drawing this back to go, sometimes I feel like I have tried to study hard. And I've spent significant time doing go problems, trying to get stronger. And I can *gradually* see the effects. Little by little. Progress slows, but hey, at least it's progress.

But then I let up a little bit, and I take two steps backward.

Sometimes, I miss burritos.

[Polama]

I tend to start making dumb mistakes though for the reasons. Maybe I stop playing honte or something. but it tends to be games I start playing well and then lose myself somewhere in the midgame

If it's dumb mistakes, I've found the key to fixing them is to immediately reflect on your state of mind. They're dumb, they're blunders, so you don't need to go back and review to find them it's just, "seriously? You missed that?" during the game.

For me, there's almost always a "why". I was listening to a conversation around me. There was a key stone that had been captured earlier and I was relying on memory of the position rather than the actual board. I haven't seen this shortage of liberty shape in a while and must have been subconsciously adding a liberty. So I note the issue and look out for it going forward.

I think as we're improving, we also become susceptible to relying too heavily on instincts. Some positions you know in a glance what to do (there's a squeeze here). Others you need to methodically read and think about. As we improve, our intuition starts wanting to assert itself (I know this shape! we hane here!). And for stuff we really know well, for stuff 8 stones beneath us, that's fine. But there's an intermediate area where the intuition isn't fully developed but is still calling out moves. You might try lengthening your games a little and trying to methodically read out things you "already know" just to be sure next losing streak.

[leonprimrose]

I tend to start making dumb mistakes though for the reasons. Maybe I stop playing honte or something. but it tends to be games I start playing well and then lose myself somewhere in the midgame

If it's dumb mistakes, I've found the key to fixing them is to immediately reflect on your state of mind. They're dumb, they're blunders, so you don't need to go back and review to find them it's just, "seriously? You missed that?" during the game.

For me, there's almost always a "why". I was listening to a conversation around me. There was a key stone that had been captured earlier and I was relying on memory of the position rather than the actual board. I haven't seen this shortage of liberty shape in a while and must have been subconsciously adding a liberty. So I note the issue and look out for it going forward.

I think as we're improving, we also become susceptible to relying too heavily on instincts. Some positions you know in a glance what to do (there's a squeeze here). Others you need to methodically read and think about. As we improve, our intuition starts wanting to assert itself (I know this shape! we hane here!). And for stuff we really know well, for stuff 8 stones beneath us, that's fine. But there's an intermediate area where the intuition isn't fully developed but is still calling out moves. You might try lengthening your games a little and trying to methodically read out things you "already know" just to be sure next losing streak.

Holy crap! I think you hit the nail on the head for most cases. I hadn't been able to figure it out but I think it IS running more on instinct for simpler situations sometimes. I suppose I just need to try and take my time on even things that seem easy. Thanks

[hl782]

Hi OP! I am about the same strength level as you so I am possibly able to relate to you as well.

I am a very competitive person, and I hate losing. If i don't get at least 55-60% on my winrates, I get pissed off to no end. Losing isn't fun - but I'm slowly realizing that there will be no improvements without it.

Recently (just 3 days ago) I had my worst streak of baduk in a while, where I lost 11 out of 18 (5 out of 6 ranked) games on KGS. I lost a majority of those games from a couple silly mistakes that compound to lopsided losses. This is honestly a common sighting in my games. However, a friend of mine just recently told me - "There is absolutely no excuses for losing". If you keep telling yourself that "Oh i just lost because of a stupid mistake", then you wont improve. If you review with stronger players and vow not to make that mistake in the future, then you will improve. no matter what. I think a good habit is to find 3 mistakes in each game, and learn from those to not make those mistakes ever again.

I also get pretty sulky and upset at myself for losing games - and that mindset is cancer. For example in that slump, i played a lot of games where i thought "okay maybe i can just win this 1 game now" (after losing a bunch), made more mistakes and lost. I think a good way to keep this in check is to limit the number of quality games you play in a day. And also, how you deal with that attitude is important. For me, I try to turn the sulk into anger - and that tends to drive me to improve.

Also, if you are in a slump - try different things. I like playing free games because it lets me play without the burden of damaging my rank - and it leaves me free to experiment with moves I wouldn't play before. Or I play my dad and just resign after 120ish moves (losing so badly makes me feel slightly better about my other games). Or I just go back and do some easy problems to study the fundamentals. Or hey maybe just get away from the game for a while, go out, and come back and start slaying once more with a fresh mind.

[Knotwilg]

Chiming in with the previous reply, I repeat An advice I gave to others having the same issue. What you ad so many others want is positive feedback. The only positive feedback you currently have is wins. So, you either have to search for a more diverse positive feedback (a teacher, a forum, other goals than winning) or start training stuff that directly translates to your winning percentage. Many ardent students of the game pick something to study and then expect to win more games. Then they are frustrated when the wins don't come because of blunders, losing on time and early resignations.

So you have to stop resigning out of misery, train time management and work on concentration level to avoid blunders. Do this first and only later work on opening, joseki, whatever pro fad ...
Good luck!

[DrStraw]

It usually works out like this:

I decide to start working on my Go and practicing hard. Playing regular games and doing lots of tsumego as well as reading books on it.

I lose some games at first when I'm getting back into it but then I start winning and doing well enough to be satisfied. Maybe 40-60% win ratio. Sometimes better than others. Losing happens and I brush it off and keep going.

At some point during this, usually a couple months into my study, I start losing. At first I brush it off as a bad streak. But it keeps going and I stop winning altogether. I try to get into each game calmly and remind myself that I'm just trying to get better.

After a while of this I start getting frustrated and eventually I step away from Go in order to distance myself from the frustration.

Rinse.

Repeat.

I've been stuck at about mid to weak SDK strength for a while now and I just want to improve. Anyone else go through this? Any thoughts on dealing with it and moving forward so I just don't continue looping like this?

Sounds like you are dwelling too much on the unimportant things. Who cares whether you win or lose if you are learning something new from the game? It takes time to digest new information. Just relax, have fun, try to learn something new from each game, and everything else will take care of itself.

[Knotwilg]

However, a friend of mine just recently told me - "There is absolutely no excuses for losing". If you keep telling yourself that "Oh i just lost because of a stupid mistake", then you wont improve. If you review with stronger players and vow not to make that mistake in the future, then you will improve. no matter what. I think a good habit is to find 3 mistakes in each game, and learn from those to not make those mistakes ever again.

Not just 3 mistakes, but the 3 biggest mistakes. The ones that affected the outcome of the game. And indeed, don't skip the "silly blunders" because it is precisely the silly blunders you want to get rid of first. Why did you make them? Time pressure, lack of concentration (alcohol, music, social networks ...)? Tackle those root causes first.

I think a good way to keep this in check is to limit the number of quality games you play in a day.

Correct. Playing junk games is a fast lane to frustration.

[often]

a few questions.

1. what are your goals in go? is it to improve or are you happy just playing?

2. what is your general attitude going into the game, are you excited to play go or are you doing it just to play a game.

after you answer them a better response can be given

however,

you do realize that at your proper rank and at a proper sample size, you will be winning half the time and losing half the time right? compounded with that there are still possible swings in terms of just running into players who might be better in that one area. it just happens.

i'd say just take a break and play when you want to. yes losses suck, but you move on. there is no one loss in Go that should make you want to quit Go. 10 games from now you'll probably forget all about that game anyway.

[jeromie]

All the above advice is good. If you're playing online, it can also be helpful to play on different servers. Switching to a different server for a few games can take some of the pressure off of your mounting losing streak, and it can also expose you to a different style of play that either allows you to win a few games or makes some of your strengths / weaknesses more clear.

[leichtloeslich]

when I was a child, my brother and I used to play cards with my father, and I would lose more often than not, usually resulting in tears. It garnered me the nickname "the onion king".

[xed_over]

Losses are nothing to be ashamed of. Everybody loses. In fact, somebody has to lose.

It doesn't mean you're any weaker or have lost any skill or ability. It usually just means your opponent made fewer mistakes than you did. I really hate rating systems that demote based on loses, because you are not worse than you were before. (I realize there are legitimate reasons for demoting, but not usually to the degree most systems use). In fact, its entirely possible that you are gaining skill, even though you're still losing.

I used to play a guy at work every day, and because I was so much stronger than he was, he would always lose (he would take handicap, but always at least one less than he actually needed). He was constantly improving and getting stronger, even though he always lost. In the years since, he's eventually caught up and passed me by.

I like to compare it with baseball batting averages. A really good batting average, is still a very low percentage, and strikes out more than they hit.

I also used to run a lot of high level tournaments. We would have the top 8 to 16 players in the country. With Swiss pairing, one player was not going to win any games -- at all. That doesn't mean they are a weak player... they are still among the top players in the country. In a win-loss competition, someone has to lose. No need to feel bad about it (easier said than done, I realize).

And, you can usually learn far more from a loss, than you can from a win. You are ripe for improvement.

[leonprimrose]

Thank all of you for the kind words and helpful advice I played a few since I posted this and lost. Tonight however, I decided to say screw it and had a drink before playing. Loosened me up just enough. I felt like myself in game again. I wasn't just straight up disappointed by my play. Of course I made mistakes. But I had fun and played like I was before the losing streak. When I was playing before I wasn't focused on winning. I was focused on playing. I have to remember to get the end result out of my head as I play. I think that's part of it. After a single game I can't say I'm back but it sure feels good lol

[Uberdude]

leonprimrose, no profanity please.

[gowan]

When we study and improve it isn't a one-way increase, more like two steps forward, one step backward. The step backwards might involve more losses than we like. Often when we learn new ideas or techniques we haven't completely absorbed the new knowledge and, when we try to use it in a game, we lose. If we are seriously studying we are improving whether we win or lose. Personally I think focusing on how many games we lose or focusing on trying to increase our ratings is asking for frustration. I prefer to focus on smaller scale steps in improvement. Did I handle my opponent's moyo well even though I lost the game because of a bad mistake in the late middle game? Congratulate yourself for your success with that moyo. Do this kind of thinking about all the small scale parts of playing good go rather than whether you are winning or losing or your rating is going up.

[Bill Spight]

leonprimrose, no profanity please.

Profanity?

BTW, this site is censored. Watch this.

"F!!k a detritus p!ss."

-- from Candy

Hmmmm. It is not as censored as I thought. I went back and censored myself.