#258, Skydyr vs Elom

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:16 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . b d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Locally, A B and C and D all seem possible, though A feels most instinctual to me for some reason. I'm leaning towards D because of the J16 stone and not wanting to be sealed into the corner. I think I could handle a crosscut fight here without too much trouble, though the ladders are a pain.

On the other hand, this move looks crazy after looking at it in depth. Perhaps I should just go with A and treat it as a couple forcing moves before I play O15 or something like that.

Elom · Post by **Elom** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:55 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I quickly settled on b15, which is impressively quick by my standards considering that this type of position could leave me pondering for the longest time.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcfig_1.01 First Diagram! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . b X , O a . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If black plays at a, white can take b, and if black takes b, I don't mind taking a. Black may do something more drastic with the power, I expect!

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:14 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was about to post that I was regretting my move, and should have gone with the cut/attachment, because black ends up with a sealed group and a stone with a strong white group between after white just blocks naturally. Now, though, things are looking up.

Offline, I've looked at the extension, the outside hane, and the clamp. The clamp and hane both appear to be overplays. The extension, though, leaves this question:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 X 1 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X 3 O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I've looked at it on a board offline as well as thinking it over, and I'm pretty sure that black can either kill the cutting stone or come out quite favourably on the outside. I'm not going to put all my reading here, because it's a pain to create the diagrams, but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 1 O X X 0 . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . 4 X X O 7 9 . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

With lines like this, white's in more trouble than black is.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 3 2 X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . 6 X 1 O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Here as well, white's got more issues than black. I've considered :b2:

at

as well in case this doesn't work out for some reason I see later.

Elom · Post by **Elom** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:53 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:26 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elom · Post by **Elom** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:55 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My initial thoughts on the position were related to how much it felt happy and fresh like the opening of spring.
So I wanted to continue that the with a move that was also happy and light.

The problem was, I seemed to difficult to find a move with a valid logical explanation, e.g. the diagram below is completely out of the question, as far as I can tell.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11fig_1.04 White's shape isn't yet fit to may a moyou. Black can even have a free strengthening move on the lower side and still easily reduce using the weaknesses in white's shape. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Of course, black wouldn't actually waste time on the lower side, so maybe would invalidate the white fantasy moyou immediately.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11fig_1.05 neutral feeling $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Regarding my actual move, playing on the right also seemed implausible due to the exchanges in the upper right corner. Playing at a... Well, I couldn't think of any reason to play a except for it being shimari (preventing black from approaching, etc.). In any case, the left side is probably the hot are, but I couldn't find a really good move there so I want to hand the choice/burden over to my opponent.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11fig_1.06 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The strategy of :w6:

is assuming white is light enough to withstand any attack black may envoke, whereas :w4:

would feel less pressure as it should be easier to move in an emergency situation with :w6:

. Let the battle begin?

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:27 am

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:57 am

Well, there's another odd move. I'm going to do some ruminating on this. I looked at it a bit over a board last night, and I feel I have a few options:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . e 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . a . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 . . b . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I'm going to start with E first. I think it's too small at the moment, and probably not the right move locally (maybe extend to the second line?) but I had the game position on a board last night and asked my wife, who is probably 25k or weaker, where she would play, and that's what she thought.

I'm a bit skeptical about D, but I put it there because I think I'll need to do something about the right side following white's play at Q13 before it becomes too big. I think it might be aji keshi to play here before I play at the top right, since white could choose to develop or de-emphasize the right side.

C is the real tenuki move I'm considering. I played in a tournament last Saturday with several games with a high 2-space approach to 3-4 that was tenukied, and I'm starting to think that a white attachment at R17 could be quite problematic for black to handle gracefully. At least white C isn't as valuable now that black is strong on top, though. That does make me wonder if I should instead try to live in the corner, pushing white to build a wall facing the top side, and then break up the right.

So on to the situation at hand: Locally I've been looking at A and B. The white stone is on the second line, so it's not exactly very threatening. If white jumps out to A himself, it's as if black had a corner enclosure, white approached, black pincered loosely, and then white decided the best move was to jump down to the second line. Not exactly the best play in that situation. If I take A, I expect something vaguely like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . 1 3 5 X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . 2 4 . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . 6 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White lives small on the side, and black gets a wall. :b7:

might be possible to omit, but it is quite a good point. Depends on whether black needs sente or not.

With B, I see more of a running fight:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . 7 . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . 2 . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks pretty favourable too... black's practically alive in the corner until white's group gets stronger, and the black outside wall facing white's very loose position looks quite nice, while white's group is running on dame.

On the other hand, maybe white's move is just a probe. But if so, what is it probing to discover? The diagram after B looks a bit too good to be true. I haven't really examined the corner aji very closely as yet, so I'm not sure if white's move adds a lot to it. If black A, I might think white would jump into the center with E8 or something like that, but then a second move can kill G2 on a pretty large scale.

The 2-4 attachment doesn't seem very spectacular. White gets a pointless second line group or a tripod group and black gets really thick.

I'll think about this more and come back to it.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:06 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The play that skydyr considers in the top right corner is :b1:

. It pushes through a moderately narrow opening, which is good.

But IMO it is problematic.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . 4 3 X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . 8 1 2 7 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The reason is the combination of :w2:

and

, cutting off :b1:

.

-

is one possible continuation. Notice how the White stones are working together. There is a reason for that, which I learned from Sonoda 9 dan. Diagonal relationships are good for sabaki. The :wc:

stones have a diagonal relationship to start with, and all of :w2:

-

occupy the same diagonal lines. :b5:

is probably ill advised.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . 4 3 X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 2 6 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In this variation :b5:

takes one of the diagonal points for White. But after :w6:

Black still has some worries.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . 2 1 . B . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Better, IMO, to play something like :b1:

, to disrupt White's diagonal relationship. Now if :w2:

, maybe

. Note that :b1:

and

maintain a diagonal relationship with :bc:

.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:25 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elom · Post by **Elom** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:19 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1fig_1.07 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I struggled to find a move which seemed "great", per se, but the only move that seemed to make sense (halfway) to play now was this. Maybe white can probe at be using G2 and the threat at a, although it does seem slightly superfluous regarding whether it gains anything for white. But at this point in the game I am already confused.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:14 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elom · Post by **Elom** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:30 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 8 . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looking at the board, I cannot think of a goal for white and so I cannot think of a move.
Instead, I'm just playing what "feels" right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 fig_1.08 Maybe this may be played later to strengthen white? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 8 . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . a 9 c . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . b . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elom · Post by **Elom** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:32 am

Sorry, double post.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:29 pm

Life In 19x19

#258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom