Life In 19x19

Everytime I pick up something from the ground (piece of litter, clothing), I use the go grip.
But I don't think it is because I am a go player. One doesn't have to bend that deep.

pragmaticleas wrote:I usually hold a go stone the proper way with my index and middle fingers, but sometimes I would just use my thumb and index fingers which is supposed to be the 'wrong' way. Does anyone do this too even if it's just from time to time?

Does anyone hold a go stone with one's index and ring fingers beneath the stone and the middle finger on top of the stone? I have seen it being done this way, but I guess it's not common. Is it proper though?

The best way to hold a stone is the way which puts the stone on the best posible point.
The fingers you use are not important, as long as you don't disturb the rest of the board.

I think that to insist or even suggest otherwise is snobbery. No offense.

Bantari wrote: The best way to hold a stone is the way which puts the stone on the best posible point.
The fingers you use are not important, as long as you don't disturb the rest of the board.

I think that to insist or even suggest otherwise is snobbery. No offense.

Spoken like a man who "pinchers" his potato chips.

Bantari wrote: The best way to hold a stone is the way which puts the stone on the best posible point.
The fingers you use are not important, as long as you don't disturb the rest of the board.

I think that to insist or even suggest otherwise is snobbery. No offense.

I would like to express my strong disagreement with what you said.

When we play go, a lot of people care about aspects that might seem irrelevant at first - board quality, stone quality, color choice, seating - and indeed they won't make you play better go. However they can improve your aesthetic pleasure, comfort and general enjoyment of the game. Holding a stone in the traditional way is more comfortable and makes this satisfying sound when it hits the board that is a part of the physical and aesthetic pleasure in playing.

Even if you only want to become stronger and absolutely do not care about enjoying yourself, why not taking a few minutes to give a try to different grips? If playing becomes more comfortable and enjoyable, then you will play more - or maybe you are a zen master playing on the floor with paper stones, because none of that really matters?

I don't see where the snobbery argument comes from. Who is trying to dictate a behaviour to others here? Just play as you find more enjoyable.

Ok, I see your point. But let me defend my position here a little more. Maybe you'll see where I am coming from with that.

Jhyn wrote:

Bantari wrote: The best way to hold a stone is the way which puts the stone on the best posible point.
The fingers you use are not important, as long as you don't disturb the rest of the board.

I think that to insist or even suggest otherwise is snobbery. No offense.

I would like to express my strong disagreement with what you said.

When we play go, a lot of people care about aspects that might seem irrelevant at first - board quality, stone quality, color choice, seating - and indeed they won't make you play better go. However they can improve your aesthetic pleasure, comfort and general enjoyment of the game. Holding a stone in the traditional way is more comfortable and makes this satisfying sound when it hits the board that is a part of the physical and aesthetic pleasure in playing.

Even if you only want to become stronger and absolutely do not care about enjoying yourself, why not taking a few minutes to give a try to different grips? If playing becomes more comfortable and enjoyable, then you will play more - or maybe you are a zen master playing on the floor with paper stones, because none of that really matters?

This is a personal opinion, and I certainly do not fault anybody for holding their stones any which way they like. If it is more fun for you, or more aesthetically pleasing, to hold your stones in a certain way, go for it, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

What I have a problem with is calling one way "proper" and the other, by default, "not proper." This implies a suggestion about quality, and often a judgement value call - which I strongly disagree with. And, human nature being what it is, this judgement often extends from judging the way a stone is held towards judging the other player in general.

Which brings me to the rest of my argument...

I don't see where the snobbery argument comes from. Who is trying to dictate a behaviour to others here? Just play as you find more enjoyable.

Snobbery comes out when people look down upon players who choose not to hold the stone in the "proper" way. I have seen it many times, and even HnG made such point if memory serves. I have seen players being taunted for holding stones in a "wrong" way, or not "plonking" them on the board just like that... I found such behavior disgusting.

I think it has its roots in the otherwise innocent idea that there is a "proper" way to hold a stone, and that the "proper" way is somehow more fun or more sophisticated than any other way. And if you do it another way, even if it is the way that suits you, it is somehow "not proper" and "not right."

Reminds me of all the times I have heard of people being admonished to hold their pinky up high when they hold a cup of tea - because it is "the proper way." Yuck.

I just don't like such narrow ideas and attitudes.

But again - I am not trying to tell you how to enjoy your Go (or your tea) - just that I disagree with calling one way "proper" and the other "not proper." Otherwise, do what gives you more pleasure, and let others do their stuff, without judging too much.

Bantari, do you object / accuse of snobbery if I say there is a traditional way to hold Go stones?

Uberdude wrote:Bantari, do you object / accuse of snobbery if I say there is a traditional way to hold Go stones?

No, not at all.

I also happen to think that this special way of holding a go stone is "traditional." Or "usual." Or "most common."
These are statements of fact, not of judgement.

However:
I could argue - and did in case of chopsticks - against something being more valuable *just because* it is traditional.
Or that specific way of holding a stone is "proper" *just because* it is traditional.
These are statements of judgement, not of fact.

Hope that makes it clear.