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Re: How to counter this greedy play?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:01 pm
by Uberdude
For move 10 Black can push and clamp. Then white p17 and n18 will either live, make a big ko, or some second line crawl escape. So with a little extra support outside such as L17 black could kill with that line, but then white could also play move 9 instead of slide where black pushes and that should be a straight J group ko.
Re: How to counter this greedy play?
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:36 am
by Koosh
@Uberdude: I made another file with thoughts based on your comment below. I'm sure I missed something, but it looks like the following points are true about this situation.
1) If B has support around L17, he can kill B as shown in the file.
Conclusion: If B has support outside at L17, W should not clamp here, and should simply hane on the first line to reduce the corner.
2) If B doesn't have support around L17, the W clamp will live inside or crawl outside.
Conclusion: If W clamps and B does not have support around L17, B must respond with L17 (letting W into the corner) or R17 ponnuki shape.
3) The move you suggested (making the straight J group) doesn't seem to make a ko. It just dies.
Conclusion: The straight J with a B descent outside is dead.
Shaddy, myself, Uberdude all basically agree that OP's original move sequence (5 stones to protect the corner) is slow. W would take the stone on the 2nd line in sente as B would owe a move to either protect the corner or extend along the top; otherwise, W can clamp and make a living group there as demonstrated in the sgf below. The position after W takes the 2nd line stone and B protects is fine for W, while B was able to protect 18 (adding a stone in the corner)-20 (extending along the top) points in the corner+side.
So...I am trying to find utility for a move similar to OP's idea. I can say from this discourse that there is a lot of aji here, and the position is pretty dynamic. I can see the allure of playing this way. If someone is going to try this style, though, it would be prudent to know all of the invading variations. (I mentioned before that I'd need to spend a chunk of time reading this out). You never know what kind of knowledge is helpful in a tournament setting.