Life In 19x19

Magicwand wrote:best player i think is
l. lee sehdol
2. kong jae
3. guli

lee changho is not strong as before. but i think he can be #4...
cho-u? how can he be in top 20??

Cho U is one of the strongest players in the world right now.

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The original list is of course rightly based on performance in international tournaments, though some have mentioned that domestic tournament performance should be heavily valued as well.

However, I think there are several young players in the world who are clearly top 10 in strength, but have not yet had the career opportunity to make a big splash on the international scene.

Chen Yaoye, for example.

cdybeijing wrote:...
Chen Yaoye...

...who is 9-7 vs Gu Li.

Noone mentioned Park Jung Hwan? He's amazing! http://senseis.xmp.net/?ParkJungHwan

I would have to agree that both Park Junghwan and Chen Yaoye should be high on the list. My instinct is to put Chen Yaoye above Hu Yaoyu and Park Junghwan just above Huang Yizhong. This is not based on any particular research... Thanks for making a list!

I'm not even sure on the question

I mean, strongest at their peak, most successful over the last few years, or top players right now this moment?

Kong Jie seems to be having a bit of an off form at the moment (quite a few blunders recently), Chen Yaoye doesn't seem to be playing as well as he was last year, Lee Sedol has gone from destroying absolutely everyone to dropping a couple of games against pros not at title challenging levels... It seems very hard to answer this question.

Certainly, Lee Changho hasn't been bad, and Gu Li has been on generally very good form it seems. I'd love to see Kong Jie and Lee Sedol both playing on their top game - I agree with magicwand's order at the moment if all players are playing at the top of their "last few years" form.

I would use how much they earned last year as a benchmark. When you rank Business School, the first year graduate's salary is an important factor. Same here, when a pro decide between two tournaments which one he wants to put more energy in, 'international' or 'domestic' is not an issue, how much he will win from the tournament is more important.

International events, eh, for football, the winner of World Cup and the winner in Olympic Game, Is it equally weighted 4 points? Who was the winner football team in 2008 Olympic Game? I cannot remember.

kokomi wrote:I would use how much they earned last year as a benchmark. When you rank Business School, the first year graduate's salary is an important factor. Same here, when a pro decide between two tournaments which one he wants to put more energy in, 'international' or 'domestic' is not an issue, how much he will win from the tournament is more important.

IIRC from looking into prize funds, this gives a rather large advantage to Japanese professionals doesn't it?

topazg wrote:

kokomi wrote:I would use how much they earned last year as a benchmark. When you rank Business School, the first year graduate's salary is an important factor. Same here, when a pro decide between two tournaments which one he wants to put more energy in, 'international' or 'domestic' is not an issue, how much he will win from the tournament is more important.

IIRC from looking into prize funds, this gives a rather large advantage to Japanese professionals doesn't it?

I don't have the data, so I'm not sure. I think it was true, but considering one win game pocketed Lee sedol 10,000 euro in the Chinese Go League, I can not really tell if Japanese professionals still have the advantage.

btw, what is IIRC?

Sorry, IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly"

True, that's a lot for a single game - My memory was that Japanese national tournaments have by a long way the biggest prize fund compared to national Chinese and Korean titles. Not that it's not still a reasonable enough metric, but it obviously has it flaws. To draw a rather ridiculous example: if the UK started offering 2 million euro prizes for each of the local tournaments, some amateur 3 dans could claim to be the best players in the world

I would still like to see an international collaborative rating system - I don't mind ELO, WHR, whatever fits, but something would still be nice. It's good to see China and Korea doing this sort of thing internally, but international would be better.

topazg wrote:Sorry, IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly"

True, that's a lot for a single game - My memory was that Japanese national tournaments have by a long way the biggest prize fund compared to national Chinese and Korean titles. Not that it's not still a reasonable enough metric, but it obviously has it flaws. To draw a rather ridiculous example: if the UK started offering 2 million euro prizes for each of the local tournaments, some amateur 3 dans could claim to be the best players in the world

I would still like to see an international collaborative rating system - I don't mind ELO, WHR, whatever fits, but something would still be nice. It's good to see China and Korea doing this sort of thing internally, but international would be better.

True, but usually money knows where it should go. Let me put it as an important factor then, taking into consideration of other factors e.g. domestic/international tournaments, quality of kifu, ratio of minority ethnic and women (oops, there isn't here ) etc...

An interntional collaborative rating system is interesting, is it like European Go Database? is a 3d/10k in UK the same strength as say...russia?

kokomi wrote:An interntional collaborative rating system is interesting, is it like European Go Database? is a 3d/10k in UK the same strength as say...russia?

The European one is difficult. Well over 95% of most countries play their games internally, so ranks can drift quite a bit - KGS works much better in that respect because all of the KGS games are at least internationally internally consistent.

However, for go professionals, there are enough international games now between the big go countries, that it starts to feel viable.

After I looked through many games of many professional players, and after consulting a lot of people, I have finally reached the conclusion that the best player in the world is me


P.S - I think Otake Hideo is the best!

topazg wrote:

kokomi wrote:An interntional collaborative rating system is interesting, is it like European Go Database? is a 3d/10k in UK the same strength as say...russia?

The European one is difficult. Well over 95% of most countries play their games internally, so ranks can drift quite a bit - KGS works much better in that respect because all of the KGS games are at least internationally internally consistent.

However, for go professionals, there are enough international games now between the big go countries, that it starts to feel viable.

Yes, it does seem plausible that an international ratings system could work. For top Korean and Chinese professionals, they each play 10-30 games a year internationally. Japan might be a bit of an island, as it seems most Japanese professionals play a bit less in international play.

Also, I've not heard anything that suggests the Japanese money advantage has waned. See: http://senseis.xmp.net/?ProfessionalTournaments, which is reasonably comprehensive, but I'm not sure how recent.

1. Kong Jie
2. Lee Sedol
3. Lee Changho
4. Gu Li
5. Chen Yaoye
5. Park Junghwan
6. Kang Dongyun (sleeper)

It's almost a toss up between Kong Jie and Lee Sedol, but you gotta give Kong Jie the nod after defeating Lee Sedol in the Fujitsu Cup. I still think Lee Changho, despite his recent slump, is stronger than Gu Li. And I agree that Chen Yaoye and Park Junghwan are underrated. The surprise in my estimation is Kang Dongyun who is currently playing very well.