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Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 8: Debunking the Chinese Fu
Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:18 am
by Gomoto
Elf to the rescue!
Chinese Fuseki as played by Elf against Leela:
Black is winning. Leela agrees, but not about the percentage
Who would have thought that Facebook will save the chinese fuseki
Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 8: Debunking the Chinese Fu
Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:45 am
by Calvin Clark
We live in interesting times. Instead of pros discarding and reviving patterns on a monthly basis we have AIs doing it daily. (Or more frequently if we were watching.)
Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 8: Debunking the Chinese Fu
Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:53 am
by Gomoto
Other watched the inventions of the steam and petrol engines. I am happy to see the invention of the intuition engine.
Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 8: Debunking the Chinese Fu
Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 8:43 am
by Tryss
An interesting point in this game is that elf don't use the usual joseki to answer the 3-3 invasion.
Previous pattern in this thread :
$$c White to move
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to move
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Elf choice is to keep sente :
$$c Black to move
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Black gives white a bigger corner, and has reduced influence over the top side. Would be intersting to see how elf evaluate the difference in "estimate winrate" between these two positions
Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 8: Debunking the Chinese Fu
Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 9:03 am
by Gomoto
(And be aware, Elf would play differently as white.)
- chinese3.jpg (80.96 KiB) Viewed 15541 times
- chinese1.jpg (80.48 KiB) Viewed 15541 times
Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 8: Debunking the Chinese Fu
Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 9:13 am
by Gomoto
Elf versus the chinese opening: