Life In 19x19

Posted: **Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:09 am**

Uberdude wrote:If white tenukis what's the plan? This is my first feeling (with a as related idea trying to be a cool like a bot). Will Bill tenuki again?

$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O X X O O . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

A two-space extension off of a five-stone wall leaves me feeling vaguely unsatisfied.
Black builds on the left side with impunity in the shadow of the wall.

I'd play this. It looks better to me on a large scale.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . 1 . . . X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O X X O O . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Posted: **Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:17 am**

@Jonsa: Congrats on keeping your cool and not responding to the provocation.

Posted: **Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:14 am**

Joaz Banbeck wrote: I'd play this. It looks better to me on a large scale.

$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . 1 . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . 1 . . . X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O X X O O . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This was my instinct as well but no one else suggested it (including Leela Zero, if I read a comment correctly) so I figured I was wrong.

I'm glad a stronger player than I shares the instinct.

Posted: **Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:24 am**

That’s an interesting idea Joaz/dfan, and wasn’t on my radar. It certainly plays on a large scale, trying to use the wall as.an asset instead of seeing it as a liability. I wonder what would black do in response? One idea would be trying to separate it from the wall (e.g. attach below, and then who knows what crazy fight happens), or how about just settling with good territory on the left? Is white bad to be playing dame, or good to be connecting and making black’s tengen stones dream of centre mayo evaporate? Maybe O Meien would like it, I recall some position where instead of playing a counter pincer he advocated playing on top. A bit like Kageyama’s example of how not to play a 9 stone handicap game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc maybe 6 at a/b instead? $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . 1 . . . X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O X X O O . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Posted: **Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:10 pm**

Uberdude wrote:how about just settling with good territory on the left? Is white bad to be playing dame, or good to be connecting and making black’s tengen stones dream of centre mayo evaporate?

This was my main concern and the reason I eventually reluctantly discarded it; it seemed like it is too easy for Black to settle on the left, and then White's influence towards the center has already been kind of pre-nullified. On the other hand, Black maybe had some dreams of center influence himself that are less on the table. And White's stones do seem to be working together, which is super important to me.

I'm not sure I like the

-

exchanges in your diagram. Maybe we can hold off on them (

and

don't seem to be doing a ton) and reserve the possibility of playing crazy moves like C9 later? But maybe if we don't make that loose connection and let Black come out there, the whole point of

goes away,

Posted: **Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:59 pm**

If you don't connect that capping move to the wall I'm concerned it becomes a bad exchange when black separates it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 4 maybe at a/b/c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . 1 . . . X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . c a . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . 4 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O X X O O . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Life In 19x19

Can I have some advice on this weird (and short) game?

Re: Can I have some advice on this weird (and short) game?

Re: Can I have some advice on this weird (and short) game?

Re: Can I have some advice on this weird (and short) game?

Re: Can I have some advice on this weird (and short) game?

Re: Can I have some advice on this weird (and short) game?

Re: Can I have some advice on this weird (and short) game?