Is this a joke?

[Kirby]

The reason I thought that John had a point was because making fun of people, in general, is not very nice.

However, it seems that Joaz has formulated an "admin stance" on this issue, so I will not stand in the way of that.

[Kirby]

John has a point. Please refrain from calling others "girly", and otherwise making fun of a person's physical attributes.

As a non-native english speaker, i'd like to learn from you what is the equivalent non-negative english word of 'girly' that describes the same meaning?

It is not necessary to point it out at all. However, Joaz has already said that this is OK to do, so I will not go against that.

[John Fairbairn]

By engaging in public performances, Mr. Sedol separates himself from the non-performing person.
It is a long established tradition in American law that those who deliberately and knowingly seek public audience, such as actors and politicians, are not subject to the same protections against ridicule.

So once again we see that only American mores count here. Even the foreigner's right to put his surname first is ignored.

And it is a far from clear case that a go player is deliberately and knowingly seeking what most of us think of as a public performance, especially one who works in Korea who has never been to America, and who does not use his voice for his main job. You could just as easily say that those who moderate public forums deliberately and knowingly seek public audience and are not subject to protection against ridicule.

I find it odd how the famous American right to free speech is denied in one case and claimed in another.

I am really only commenting on the inconsistency of moderation, as I am still narked by earlier incidents, I will freely admit.

As to the original "joke", if you think the young man's voice is hilarious, fine. It doesn't make you a bad person and I personally wouldn't want to censor you. But if you really do want to be part of a gangfest of public ridicule in a case like this, allow me the same right to think you are hilariously sophomoric.

[Joaz Banbeck]

The reason I thought that John had a point was because making fun of people, in general, is not very nice.

However, it seems that Joaz has formulated an "admin stance" on this issue, so I will not stand in the way of that.

[admin]
It seems that we have two admins with different opinions here. We must talk privately, maybe get a third or fourth admin opinion on this. We'll probably make some formal announcement later.
[/admin]

[Dusk Eagle]

So once again we see that only American mores count here. Even the foreigner's right to put his surname first is ignored.

He can put whatever name he wants first. Whether a particular person chooses to call him by his first or last name though is entirely that one person's choice. For instance, I can call you either "John" or "Fairbairn." Even if you insist that I don't call you Fairbairn (or John, for that matter), I am not denying you any rights by refusing to listen to you.

And it is a far from clear case that a go player is deliberately and knowingly seeking what most of us think of as a public performance, especially one who works in Korea who has never been to America, and who does not use his voice for his main job. You could just as easily say that those who moderate public forums deliberately and knowingly seek public audience and are not subject to protection against ridicule.

Sure, of course you can, but if you do it on a forum where that person is an admin, you may get banned.

I find it odd how the famous American right to free speech is denied in one case and claimed in another.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In no way does the right to free speech apply in this case. The admins could come up with a rule saying, for instance, "There is to be no talk about chess anywhere on this forum." They are perfectly within their right to do that. We are also perfectly within our rights to leave and never come back if we feel the rules are becoming too draconian. The first amendment applies only to the government - others are allowed to censor you as long as you are on their property.

I am really only commenting on the inconsistency of moderation, as I am still narked by earlier incidents, I will freely admit.

Fair.

As to the original "joke", if you think the young man's voice is hilarious, fine. It doesn't make you a bad person and I personally wouldn't want to censor you. But if you really do want to be part of a gangfest of public ridicule in a case like this, allow me the same right to think you are hilariously sophomoric.

Also fair.

[John Fairbairn]

He can put whatever name he wants first. Whether a particular person chooses to call him by his first or last name though is entirely that one person's choice. For instance, I can call you either "John" or "Fairbairn." Even if you insist that I don't call you Fairbairn (or John, for that matter), I am not denying you any rights by refusing to listen to you.

I think you missed the point by a country mile. The admin said Mr Seedol. Seedol is not a surname.

On another point, this forum is not the property of any admins (unless fwiffo counts as one, too). They do have some sort of power, though and they may wish to abuse their power to ban me, but I don't believe that thought has even remotely crossed their minds (about me or anyone else). I don't think any one of them has even shown the slightest tendency to want to abuse their power in that way. I have simply observed and commented on an occasional lack of understanding that there is a world outside America. I make my comments not to castigate and not to provoke, but simply in the hope of opening eyes and ears.

I hope I'm not taken as anti-American. I have spent my last two main annual holidays on long trips to America and plan a bigger one next year. Although these are centred on baseball, my real motivation is to learn about America. I felt ashamed recently that I was so ignorant about one of the most important countries in the world. From several brief press trips I already knew that the gruesome tv and Hollywood image of the USA was warped. I therefore began a course of reading and visits to get a better picture.

I have been delighted with learning how attractive the real USA can be, and the joys of learning about other nations are such that I readily urge others to do the same.

[Chew Terr]

John, thanks for taking such pains to be understood. Being careful to explain yourself saves internet misunderstandings, and the giant tangents it can take to resolve them.

[Monadology]

Calling this thread a "gangfest of public ridiculue" much less suggesting that anything in it is "ridicule" seems pretty severe to me, considering I don't see anything contemptuous or derisive in it. The use of the word "girly", the closest it came, seems to have been simply a poorly chosen word.

[John Fairbairn]

Calling this thread a "gangfest of public ridicule"

I didn't. It was a pointer to a possible path. The point of speaking up early is to head them off at the pass. Yi Se-tol's voice has been the subject of scorn in another thread some time ago, so there is a bit of form here.

[Bill Spight]

John has a point. Please refrain from calling others "girly", and otherwise making fun of a person's physical attributes.

As a non-native english speaker, i'd like to learn from you what is the equivalent non-negative english word of 'girly' that describes the same meaning?

"girlish", "effeminate", "girl-like".

The last is probably the least likely to elicit offense.

[LokBuddha]

I didn't mean anything offensive, but as a compliment, even more respectful of Lee Sedol. He has no problem displaying/showing his personality both off and on the board. On the board he is tough, off the board he doesn't mind showing a fun side. What I pointed out was just a contrast that many amateurs players that just discovered what Lee Sedol voice sound. What I laugh is that it is fun to see different side of Lee Sedol, a Pro player that I look up to. If I didn't care about him at all, I wouldn't look him up in youtube and see a video like that.

Girly, hillarious was used without any negative intention!!

[deja]

The reason I thought that John had a point was because making fun of people, in general, is not very nice.

However, it seems that Joaz has formulated an "admin stance" on this issue, so I will not stand in the way of that.

[admin]
It seems that we have two admins with different opinions here. We must talk privately, maybe get a third or fourth admin opinion on this. We'll probably make some formal announcement later.
[/admin]

I really hope you do not "talk privately, maybe get a third or fourth admin opinion on this" and make a "formal Announcement later." That's taking the moderator role here on L19 way too seriously, which I think is part of the underlying problem that I and some others see developing.

From my standpoint, moderators should only exercise their roles when it becomes obvious that the community cannot take care of problematic users or situations, which is very rare around here - no, we don't need to parse out what "obvious" means. It's perfectly okay to be disagreeable, angry or at times offensive and offended. I think we can allow each other the prerogative to be human, flaws and all, and make our own judgments as a result.

By the way, this is one of the most well-behaved forums I've ever been a part of. We regulate ourselves very nicely by comparison.

[xed_over]

[admin]
It seems that we have two admins with different opinions here. We must talk privately, maybe get a third or fourth admin opinion on this. We'll probably make some formal announcement later.
[/admin]

don't you guys have a private admin forum?

[DrStraw]

Also is this also a joke? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZHluAq97Zg

Who makes Lee Sedol do this?? LOL he is so girly, both his voice and body language. I always imagine he has a killer type of voice.

Well, I don't speak Korean so I guess I cannot be sure, but it looks to me as though the voice is not in synch with the lip movements. Did someone jut voice over it as a joke?

[Jedo]

I think people are way over reacting to this. Lee Sedol is indeed a public figure and is subject to ridicule. Also, the "ridicule" has been lightly poking fun at best. Has everyone else been reading the same text I've been reading? Somehow I can't imagine Sedol logging on to this forum, seeing this thread and immediately starting to cry.