Life In 19x19

hailthorn011 wrote:Okay, I've played Go for around 4-5 months now, and during that span I've tried sporadically to get my girlfriend to play Go as well. It worked once, but then she was discouraged because I defeated her handily. Although, I do admit, I wasn't really trying...And I gave a nine stone handicap. Anyway, my goal is to somehow enable her to see just why this game has captivated me so much. However, my attempts have been in vein, and it seems like I'm making her more disinterested than interested.

So, question of the day: How do I get her interested? (And man, so many puns there, I know.)

Just because your girlfriend isn't interested in playing go, doesn't mean that she can't get interested in other ways. If there's one thing that most women really like to do, it is to talk (and if you're offended, I bet you'll tell me why). Go is a wonderful thing to talk about. First of all, it is one of your big interests, and something you like to spend time doing. Your girlfriend is interested in what you do and why you do it (and why you spend so much time doing it when you could be doing something with her). Tell her what fascinates you about the game, how it makes you feel and what it makes you think about. Talk to her about the subjects and conflicts that crop up here - there are wonderful threads on culture, philosophy, education, rules... just to name a few - and you've already read the talking points!

My girlfriend for example won't play hardly anything. My daughter and I have struggled to teach her the simplest games, but she only plays them grudgingly. However, she does like to hear what I have to say about go, and it's nice for me to have someone to share my experiences with. Not many other people seem to care much about my epic 6k battles.

So I say, talk talk talk. You'll both have something from it, and I'm sure that it's good for a go player's relationship if your significant other sees why you find it worthwhile to spend your time doing it. Once you get the hang of talking about go, you might even discover that you have something insightful and go related to say about the most abstruse subjects, from flowerpots and curtains to dirty dishes (bad aji).

Some good advice has been given here, but the casual "just give up" is not. And comparing this issue it to "mumblemumble" is pretty offensive. Go is very important, relationships are very important, and most of us would like to have both in our lives.

EARLY EDIT - I posted a lot before realizing that I know nothing about the poster - this could be a high school relationship - this advice is more for someone older in a serious commitment type of situation.

Yes you should stop pressuring her to play.

Yes you should certainly not play her yourself.

However, assuming you like her, because she is your girlfriend, and assuming you like go, because you are willing to risk ruining the relationship by bugging her about it - then you do need to find ways that the two interests can goexist.

Go club, tournaments, Congresses - even online addiction can take time away from the relationship. Now, I would think most women would find this less objectionable than carousing bars with "the boys", but it still can be time spent that is resented.

You must make the game positive. Try to downplay any frustration you have with your own game, and emphasize the fun. Dont block her out - like telling her to leave you alone when you are online playing for hours and dont let the game effect your mood negatively, or her attitude will be negative. Share with her fun things that happen in games - do not try her patience - just quick little "look how big this group was that died" or "so and so is watching my game, remember we met him once". If she asks a question, welcome it, but don't overdo the response.

You need to get some friends that play go, preferably cool friends, which may be difficult with go players, but try to make them sound cool. Do some things with them that interest her. Include her in the more interesting things that interest you here, and what you are learning about people here and online that play.

If she discovers that, even if the game does not interest her, that the people are cool and she might even want to meet them, then you can include her in things and she will resent the time spent on the game much less. She is almost certainly going to be more interested in actual people at a go club or tournament, than user names here and on KGS.

And, under these circumstances, she might even come around to playing...but that should not be your goal - your goal should be for her to appreciate that this is important to you, and that it would be nice if she took an interest - just as you should take an interest in things that are important to her.

Maybe you could try getting involved in one of her hobbies.

daal wrote:Just because your girlfriend isn't interested in playing go, doesn't mean that she can't get interested in other ways.

My girlfriend and I came to an agreement recently. She told me, if I read Pride and Prejudice, she would read all of Hikaru no Go. I figured it is something go-related that she can enjoy that might help her understand my love of the game a little. And I just finished Pride and Prejudice a few days ago... =D

Chew Terr wrote:My girlfriend and I came to an agreement recently. She told me, if I read Pride and Prejudice, she would read all of Hikaru no Go. I figured it is something go-related that she can enjoy that might help her understand my love of the game a little. And I just finished Pride and Prejudice a few days ago... =D

Win-win! Pride and Prejudice is a great book.

I taught my wife some chess (she already knew the rules). That consisted mostly of her playing correspondence games online and me commenting afterwards. She also did some problems on the Chess Tactics Server, which is a fun way to be served up tactical puzzles. That worked pretty well, but it had a few things going for it (as opposed to go):

• She already knew the rules
• She already had other friends who played occasionally, so she had some social incentive to play well
• She had a concrete achievable goal of being able to beat her friends regularly

Once she got to that goal, she didn't have much interest in taking it further, which is fine. One nice thing is that I can come home from a tournament and show her the sweet combination I played, and she can get why it was cool.

She's expressed some interest in go (because she sees me spending so much time with it), but because the items in the list above don't apply, it's a bit tougher. I taught her the basic rules (Chinese) and we played a couple of 9x9 games with super-high handicaps, which went fine. That's as far as we've taken it, though.

Repeating some suggestions already made:

• If she doesn't have any interest herself, don't force it.
• Hikaru no Go could be a nice way to raise some interest.
• I recommend starting to play by briefly going over Chinese rules (basically just capturing; don't bring up ko, don't mention eyes, don't talk about territory since you can count without it) and playing a 9x9 game with a 9-stone handicap. Talk about ko if it comes up, talk about eyes after a few games.
• If she picks up any interest in playing on her own, Igowin is great to learn against.

Another tactic is to ask her to help you replay a pro game. I've tried that before and it worked - we went through a few games, her playing white and me playing black and we would comment on moves, overall play and shape, etc.

Does she play? No. Does she seem terribly interested? Not really. But did she do it and seem to have a good time? Yes. She even made some comments herself, learned how to properly hold and place a stone, took stones off the board when they were captured on her own, etc.

I think the most important thing is, as others have mentioned, to explain why you love the game, why you find it interesting, etc. but also to try to get her interested without putting pressure on her.

Edit: I personally disagree with the "she's not interested, give it up" group. She's your girlfriend for a reason - sure, she may not LOVE playing, but if she is interested in you she will play or help when you ask her to. She may even ask you, sometimes. If it was your sister, brother, mother, father, then maybe give it up.

iambadatgo wrote:...but if she is interested in you she will play or help when you ask her to. ...

Yes, but relationships are a two way street. It's important to see things from the other person's perspective. From a go player's perspective, you may think like that: "If she's interested in me, she should appreciate go.".

But from a non-go playing partner's perspective, they might think something like: "He only plays go all day. If he's interested in me, he should spend more time with me.".

Each person's relationship is different, but I think that assuming that a significant other should be required to play a game you enjoy is a one-sided perspective.

It could just as easily be argued that, if you were interested enough in her, you'd give up the game and spend more time with her.

Kirby wrote:

iambadatgo wrote:...but if she is interested in you she will play or help when you ask her to. ...

Yes, but relationships are a two way street. It's important to see things from the other person's perspective. From a go player's perspective, you may think like that: "If she's interested in me, she should appreciate go.".

But from a non-go playing partner's perspective, they might think something like: "He only plays go all day. If he's interested in me, he should spend more time with me.".

Each person's relationship is different, but I think that assuming that a significant other should be required to play a game you enjoy is a one-sided perspective.

It could just as easily be argued that, if you were interested enough in her, you'd give up the game and spend more time with her.

kirby: how is your wife? does she play baduk?

@everyone: Well, I'm not going to apply any pressure to get her to play or anything. Every now and then I'll ask, but I've decided to stop that too in favor of simply discussing my games that took place. I think one of the biggest things that turns her off about the game is that she can't instantly be great at it. She doesn't have the patience to lose. (I can't say much. At one point every loss frustrated me to no end. But I've since realized you learn more from a loss than a win.) But I think that is the primary issue.

@tapir & Laman: Actually, that's why I'd like her to play, so I can go to pair tournaments and stuff like that. But I might try seeing if she'd like to learn with someone else rather than simply trying to play against me and getting overwhelmed.

@daal: I do talk about it quite a bit. I told her about my amazing 16-18K battles all the time. (Although, to some, they're not amazing.) She seemed interested in those stories, so I guess it's a start! lol

@zinger: The funny part is, most of her hobbies are things we both enjoy.

@Chewtarr: I might try that strategy...

@dfan: Right, right. I played against igowin myself, and I know that is a useful tool. I keep forgetting about that one. And I'm tryijng the HnG thing now.

@iambadatgo: Good idea! I never thought of having her review games with me. Then again, I could perhaps have her do that with the games I played (so it means more), and point out the same things you pointed out.

@Kirby: Well, I'd never have a perspective like that. I respect the decision she has to not play, and by no means do I feel like that she is bad for choosing not to. We have a lot of hobbies that we share: video games, story writing, rping, ect. I just find that Go is my biggest hobby (and I'm probably such a low level because I have so many hobbies lol).

Magicwand wrote:...

kirby: how is your wife? does she play baduk?

She was taught go around kindergarten, I think, but she didn't have a huge interest in it. I think she said that there was some teacher that came into the classroom and taught everyone the basics of the game.

She knows that I like go a lot, so she gets me go stuff sometimes, but she's not really big into playing. We are actually both very competitive, so we typically don't play against one another.

She's probably about 15k or so, I think. I have an ipod application for go problems, and she likes doing some of the easy problems on there, somtimes. But I know that it is because of me - not because of her own interest.

I subscribe to a Korean go magazine, and she reads it sometimes. She is usually more interested in go news than the game. She liked reading an interview from when Lee Changho got married. She also likes Cho Hunhyun.

So I think she knows some things about go, but she is not really that interested in playing. Most go related things that she does are because of me.

I think she likes omok better.

When my wife was my girlfriend, I tried introducing her to the game. I'm not sure if it was at my prompting, because at one point she said she really would like to learn because I was so devoted to the game. She played a few games, played igowin a few times, but got discouraged and didn't enjoy it. It's been years since she did more than have me point at the screen and say "this group here is strong, so I want to attack..."

Once in awhile, she'll express concern that there's this thing I care about so much that she doesn't have any interest in, but in practice it's no problem, and I don't think she usually does worry. She's usually willing to listen when I talk about a game I played, and as far as taking up time, it doesn't matter whether it's go or something else. Being ignored doesn't feel good no matter how important the thing you're being ignored for is. Conversely, every couple eventually benefits from some amount of time pursuing individual interests. You can only spend 23 hours together most days.

What use is a girlfriend who doesn't play Go?

Javaness wrote:What use is a girlfriend who doesn't play Go?

Is that meant in a "ha ha" way, or literally? <<

Javaness wrote:What use is a girlfriend who doesn't play Go?

I would tell you but it's a family friendly board

Seriously though, Hailthorn, if you share common interests/hobbies that's good news. No harm in having one thing to do on your own.

I'm lucky because my partner LIKES to play Go. However, it was only when she came with me to a Go seminar and played other people that her interest really took off. She found her love of Go on her own and all I did was point the way.

If you have a club in your area, maybe you can ask her to tag along one night. She might be more inspired by the community than the game itself.

You also might try playing Atari Go instead of a full-handicap game. It's a fun game and it shows you the basics of Go in a quick and easy manner. Your girlfriend may find it more enjoyable and less intimidating than a 19x19 game.